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| Re: Researchers Explore Altruism's Unexpected Ally -- Selfishness [message #339003 is a reply to message #338809 ] |
Mon, 05 May 2008 04:15   |
 Bruno Putzeys
Messages: 628
Registered: November 2006
Location: Rotselaar (Belgium) |
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| Barry Hufker wrote on Sun, 04 May 2008 05:43 |
What is being said is that assholes won't put up with other assholes. Therefore assholes attempt to eliminate each other, which over time, means less assholes. This then allows more altruistic personalities to propagate.
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Up to the point where there are so many altruistic personalities that a few selfish ones can freeload big time. Neither selfishness nor altruism are stable when prevalent. The result could be an equilibrium, but also the evolution of more complicated strategies. For instance one where everyone starts by playing nice but retaliates when being cheated. This trait would not be self-defeating when it becomes prevalent, unlike pure altruism or pure selfishness.
| Barry Hufker wrote on Sun, 04 May 2008 20:28 |
I'm not sure I agree. Altruism is actually a selfish act in essence. It is the self-satisfaction of know a person helped another. Both benefit of course but the "giver" is rewarded with great pleasure. And who doesn't want to feel good?
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That's just replacing one mystery by another. After explaining that people are nice because it feels good, you should explain why being nice feels good!
Have more faith, Bambi. The only right way of dealing with headlights is staring them down.
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| Re: Researchers Explore Altruism's Unexpected Ally -- Selfishness [message #339021 is a reply to message #339016 ] |
Mon, 05 May 2008 07:14 |
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MagnetoSound
Messages: 1144
Registered: October 2007
Location: Southern England |
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That's very true.
| Quote: |
By doing so, we make it so.
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Attachment: TNG_pat.jpg
(Size: 32.46KB, Downloaded 129 time(s))
'No one has had it better than the baby boomer generation. At a hell of a cost. The saving grace is that the new generations have absolutely no clue how much of their rightful legacy has been squandered - or else it would get pretty ugly out there.'
- Tony Katsabanis
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| Re: Researchers Explore Altruism's Unexpected Ally -- Selfishness [message #339026 is a reply to message #338902 ] |
Mon, 05 May 2008 07:44 |
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Tomas Danko
Messages: 3263
Registered: May 2004
Location: Stockholm, Sweden |
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| p.mento wrote on Sun, 04 May 2008 21:37 |
| Tomas Danko wrote on Sun, 04 May 2008 14:39 |
| MDM, wrote on Sun, 04 May 2008 10:33 |
what about when assholes become PRESIDENT????
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"Assholes don't let other assholes become president"
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2R_8-4OmUu4
(explicit language, don't watch if you're offended...)
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My gosh!
When composing my post above I actually found the text from that speech, formatted it and was about to submit it.
Then I just realised I was about to post way more bad words than I've ever written (and perhaps ever will) here on PSW. In one post.
So I erased it and kept that one first line, which was my very own.
"T(Z)= (n1+n2*Z^-1+n2*Z^-2)/(1+d1*z^-1+d2*z^-2)" - Mr. Dan Lavry
"Shaw baa laa raaw, sidle' yaa doot in dee splaa" . Mr Shooby Taylor
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| Re: Researchers Explore Altruism's Unexpected Ally -- Selfishness [message #339028 is a reply to message #339026 ] |
Mon, 05 May 2008 08:06 |
Bruno Putzeys
Messages: 628
Registered: November 2006
Location: Rotselaar (Belgium) |
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I share Dawkins' exasperation at the continuing misunderstanding of the concept of "selfish genes". It's not "selfishness gene" or "gene for selfishness". It's the gene that "wishes" to further its own "selfish" goal of propagation. Some genes improve their chances of propagation by making their bearer truly altruistic. It is not at all necessary to postulate a hidden selfish agenda on the part of the human involved. Someone who risks his life to save his family is truly altruistic as a person, but the genes that caused his honest altruism now live on in his family. Feeling good about being nice to others and feeling bad about being cheated is not the result of any conscious calculation. It's just that genes that strengthen these emotional responses are slightly better at propagating than the ones that allow their bearer to cheat continually or to be cheated continually.
Have more faith, Bambi. The only right way of dealing with headlights is staring them down.
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| Re: Researchers Explore Altruism's Unexpected Ally -- Selfishness [message #339046 is a reply to message #338505 ] |
Mon, 05 May 2008 09:24 |
PRobb
Messages: 1236
Registered: May 2004
Location: New York City |
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I had a neighbor who was a real greed is good, screw them before they screw me yuppie. One day he told me he was moving because he hated the neighborhood. I asked why. He said it was because the people were so nasty. The pricks at the liquor store, the bastards at this restaurant, the thieves at that deli, etc. etc. I thought that was weird because I really liked the neighborhood because the people were so friendly. And it was all the same people.
And the truth is you populate the world you live in. He will always live in a nasty neighborhood, I will always live in a friendly one.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
-Edmund Burke
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| Re: Researchers Explore Altruism's Unexpected Ally -- Selfishness [message #339048 is a reply to message #339028 ] |
Mon, 05 May 2008 09:42 |
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studiojimi
Messages: 1232
Registered: April 2004
Location: Hollywood, CA |
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| Probb wrote this morning |
I had a neighbor who was a real greed is good, screw them before they screw me yuppie. One day he told me he was moving because he hated the neighborhood. I asked why. He said it was because the people were so nasty. The pricks at the liquor store, the bastards at this restaurant, the thieves at that deli, etc. etc. I thought that was weird because I really liked the neighborhood because the people were so friendly. And it was all the same people.
And the truth is you populate the world you live in. He will always live in a nasty neighborhood, I will always live in a friendly one.
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so true Probb!
no matter where he goes...he will be there.
| Bruno Putzeys wrote on Mon, 05 May 2008 06:06 |
I share Dawkins' exasperation at the continuing misunderstanding of the concept of "selfish genes". It's not "selfishness gene" or "gene for selfishness". It's the gene that "wishes" to further its own "selfish" goal of propagation. Some genes improve their chances of propagation by making their bearer truly altruistic. It is not at all necessary to postulate a hidden selfish agenda on the part of the human involved. Someone who risks his life to save his family is truly altruistic as a person, but the genes that caused his honest altruism now live on in his family. Feeling good about being nice to others and feeling bad about being cheated is not the result of any conscious calculation. It's just that genes that strengthen these emotional responses are slightly better at propagating than the ones that allow their bearer to cheat continually or to be cheated continually.
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genes do not pull the entire ox-cart on character challenges which lead to the 7 deadly "sins"
(which i choose to call mistakes/errors)
there is a little "monkey see - monkey do" in there as well
a great amount of behaviour is learned from witnessing
as a child through a child's underdeveloped mind and emotions
this is why it is important
(both in reality and metaphysically)
to come to Jesus, the Christ
(indwelling perfection)
as a child to get the grounding powerful influence that only a child's mind can fully receive without the encumberment of the world's negative influence.
your parents and your spiritual parenting (God)
can have a great influence from actions witnessed far beyond the bloodline--
some of it conscious and much of it subconsious
raising the spiritual awareness cleans the sub concious and prepares us for the better choices and experiences in life.
surely pride for a job well done is a healthy thing
pride of one's family's accomplishments as well
pride in your baseball team etc etc
a good constant link with Spirit through tools of prayer and meditation and maintaining that spiritual handshake serves me better for the long haul than my USB computer/printer cable.....
and it hs served mankind serve himself
(in a healthy way)
throughout recorded history
the "non-connected" are the minority
it is more than seeming to me that
a "co-alition of the clueless"
some wrapped in very high IQs
and the others little black sheep followers if you will
sadly have chosen to become binded and blinded all by themselves
from the capital T Truth of their being.
that being said WE ARE:
spirits having a human experience
living in a spiritual world
governed by spiritual LAW.
i freely give expecting a return
because i understand the LAW of giving and receiving
the receiving comes back to me always but usually from an unexpected place rather that the place to which i gave.
when i work with an understanding of the LAW
I AM happier, more prosperous, healthy
and
ABUNDANT....
(just look at my picture LOL)
thank You God!
CAZADOR RECORDING
STUDIOJIMI'S PSW SONG FORUM
MY MYSPACE
How very good and pleasant it is
when kindred live together in unity!
Psalm 133:1
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| Re: Researchers Explore Altruism's Unexpected Ally -- Selfishness [message #339053 is a reply to message #339048 ] |
Mon, 05 May 2008 09:54 |
Bruno Putzeys
Messages: 628
Registered: November 2006
Location: Rotselaar (Belgium) |
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It just struck me that, having read the Bible from cover to cover, I am entitled to ask of a few others to do likewise with, say, "the selfish gene". Go for it, boys.
Have more faith, Bambi. The only right way of dealing with headlights is staring them down.
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| Re: Researchers Explore Altruism's Unexpected Ally -- Selfishness [message #339072 is a reply to message #339068 ] |
Mon, 05 May 2008 10:49 |
Bruno Putzeys
Messages: 628
Registered: November 2006
Location: Rotselaar (Belgium) |
Gold Member |
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Barry & Jimi, get reading... an Amazon link has been posted earlier in the thread.
Have more faith, Bambi. The only right way of dealing with headlights is staring them down.
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