Home » R/E/P » Francis Manzella » Reflections PDF
|
| Re: Reflections PDF [message #183904 is a reply to message #183851 ] |
Tue, 05 September 2006 21:59   |
|
Thanks Lars... hey guys this is the real deal.. read it, live it, love it... my man knows of what he speaks!!
Francis Manzella - President, FM Design Ltd.
- Managing Director, Griffin Audio
fmdesign.com
griffinaudiousa.com
|
|
|
| Re: Reflections PDF [message #183905 is a reply to message #183851 ] |
Tue, 05 September 2006 22:00 |
 |
 Teddy G.
Messages: 369
Registered: March 2005
Location: Lititz, PA |
Active Member |
|
|
It has been a long day, which started early this morning with a 120+ mile round trip, via Amtrak, to Philadelphia for a VO session and ended - late this evening - with work, in my home studio for a TV show in DC, followed, of course, by "checking in" to several audio forums.
I say all this just so you understand why I'm not "getting it all" - at least not at the moment. However, THANKYOU for the post! For gosh sakes, FINISH IT! PLEASE!!! We need stuff like this to help us understand what is actually happening in our seriously under-treated rooms!!!!!!
Anyway, the "two rooms" description seems to make sense, even to my foggy brain. Thankx!
I wonder if one records in the same room one listens(Mixes) in, even from the same "position"(Sitting at the desk, speaking into a mic, recording, then listening back to the speakers, from same position) whether there might be 4 rooms? I'm tired...
Thankx again!
Teddy G.
|
|
|
| Re: Reflections PDF [message #183907 is a reply to message #183851 ] |
Tue, 05 September 2006 22:08 |
|
and if you listen to the recording or your playing back the same recording that you listened to at the mix position, it's kinda like looking at yourself in the TV with the camera pointed at the TV, right.... (yeah, I'm beat too!)
Francis Manzella - President, FM Design Ltd.
- Managing Director, Griffin Audio
fmdesign.com
griffinaudiousa.com
|
|
| | | |
| Re: Reflections PDF [message #184307 is a reply to message #183851 ] |
Thu, 07 September 2006 07:35 |
|
Teddy G.
Messages: 369
Registered: March 2005
Location: Lititz, PA |
Active Member |
|
|
Not a "new thread", a "new" forum title, period! Hell, an entire book, a series of books, a televison series, a 3 picture movie deal!!!!
We are talking, here, of room accoustics, but the rail car full of worms, ready for opening, that would be "pseudo-stereo"(To put it kindly), that is most recordings for the last 40+ years, would be a wonderful topic for discussion all on it's own!
Indeed, the column heading might be:
"What Stereo?"
Putting lead guitar "left" and rhythm guitar "right" is not stereo - it is two mono tracks left and right.
What I have coveted, ever since I've seen them(Quality? I don't know, it's the portability and ease of use that I want.) is the Rode stereo mic(The one with the cool looking head) and a digital portable recorder, so I could go around and "record things", ANY things, just as they are. Sound, music, whatever. I am drawn to the combo(Or similar) as I think my brain is tired of mixing, or re-mixxing, or hearing others M or RM, as we try to "duplicate" something that was never really there. In reality, the guitar players each can come in seperately, stand in the same position, be recorded, then "placed" on a "sound stage". How bogus is that???
The first record I ever bought was "The Beach Boys -- Oh my God... NO that wasn't the name of the album, I just can't remember! Something about surfing, I believe??? Or girls??? Or girls surfing??? Anyway, on the back of the jacket was a picture of the 4 boys singing into ONE mic(I believe a Neuman?) all at one time. Did they really do that? All at once? HORRORS!!! Had to have been a "staged" photo. NO ONE could really do that!!! How would the engineer and producer "mix" them??? How could you put the fella's in different places on the sound stage? Had to be fake. Truth to tell, to hear what "the pros" DO do under such circumstances, all you have to do is buy a Beach Boys CD(Greatest Hits Volume 1) and hear! Then cry.
For instance. I have been looking to purchase a "test CD", to audition my new speakers. A CD that is "properly" made, using the latest methods - completely digital at least, to say nothing of 'real' stereo, of ANY type(Rock, country, classical, whatever.). I ask for suggestions, say on the forums, and I get answers like "Dark Side Of The Moon" or some such. I'm not sure anyone is listening? I'm not looking for the music, I'm looking(Listening) for the recording, itself - you know, like what WE do! To hear how far the science has progressed, not to listen for the latest "loudness tricks" or a particuarly fine guitar riff. I suggest we start there. Coming up with a list of real recording, done right. Some examples. Good talent? OK, but, good room, good use of room, good recording technique, good mastering, good pressing, so I can play it in my room and listen to it in my phones and hear 'good'. And, as I improve my room the good should get even gooder. Nothing like a good example to get one off on the right ear.
Enough. Sorry.
TG
Maybe: "Where stereo"(The Mel Brooks version.)
OH! "Surfin' Safari" - I'm tired and old, too...
|
|
| |
| Re: Reflections PDF [message #184337 is a reply to message #184307 ] |
Thu, 07 September 2006 10:01 |
 |
AndreasN
Messages: 163
Registered: February 2005
Location: Bergen, Norway |
Active Member |
|
|
Hei Lars!
Cool article! Think it may perhaps be easier for the novice to visualise if you include a picture of a typical listening room; with some arrows to show where the first reflection occurs physically and how that translates into delayed impulses in the ETC.
And please do go ahead with the pseudo stereo rant. Way too many folks in the industry are not even aware of the issue!
Your name seems to be Scandinavian, btw. Any relation to these parts of the world? =)
| Teddy G. wrote on Thu, 07 September 2006 14:35 |
For instance. I have been looking to purchase a "test CD", to audition my new speakers. A CD that is "properly" made, using the latest methods - completely digital at least, to say nothing of 'real' stereo, of ANY type(Rock, country, classical, whatever.).
|
The ones I usually refer is the three 'best of Chesky Jazz and Classical, and audiophile test disk'. Chesky records, recorded and (not so much processed) by Bob Katz. They're rather old, ten plus years, but they still sound fabulously great. Haven't dug into the rest of the Chesky catalogue, but my understanding is that the label is dedicated to the sort of sound you're looking for.
Cheers,
Andreas Nordenstam
|
|
| | | | | |
| Re: Reflections PDF [message #186962 is a reply to message #183851 ] |
Mon, 18 September 2006 17:35 |
Kendrix
Messages: 756
Registered: April 2004 |
Gold Member |
|
|
Good article.
One conclusion you took from this data is that the larger recording room dominates our reflections-based perception on playback and that the smaller listening room effectively gets lost in that sonic picture. (From looking at the red and blue curves.)
However, that is not always the case- correct?
I'm thinking about when the recording space is smaller/deader than the listening space.
In this case it seems the listening room will play a major role influncing our perception of the soundfield.
In this case it seems a dry recording is best- so you avoid the room-in-a-room effect during playback.
I also note that stereo micing presents its own issues. If you dont get things just right then phasing can harm the sound. If you have numerous stereo tracks you have to pan intelligently or it can all turn to mush.
In a world of loud guitar amps, keyboards etc. that each need their own close miced tracks (to avoid excessive bleed) how would you simultaneously record them all in stereo?
Seems to me in practice the best we can do is pick 1-2 key sounds to try and track properly in stereo.
Ken Favata
|
|
|
Goto Forum:
Current Time: Mon Oct 6 17:07:45 CDT 2008
Total time taken to generate the page: 0.07257 seconds |
Members
Search
FAQ
Register
Login
Home
Re: Reflections PDF
