Home » R/E/P » Whatever Works » Mellotrons for the masses
| Re: Mellotrons for the masses [message #301538 is a reply to message #301533 ] |
Mon, 31 December 2007 16:43   |
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Doug Rogers Messages: 171 Registered: January 2006 Location: Los Angeles |
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| RSettee wrote on Mon, 31 December 2007 21:57 |
To me, though, it doesn't matter whether things are dated--at one point, the Mellotron was horribly outdated and many sought to rid themselves of the unreliability of it.
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Here's why it matters ...
When the Mellotron was introduced, it was the first popular sample playback system. You had one velocity, no articulations - that's what you got - limited by the technology of the day.
Then came the Fairlights, Synclaviers, Akai, Emu etc. They were digital, still pretty limited, and some of the more sophisticated units were hellishly expensive ($350K for a fully loaded Synclavier). By today's standards they are a complete joke!
Expressive samples were still missing. Computers couldn't play more than 2 voices at the time due to 'latency', that's why musicians mortgaged their homes to buy Fairlights and Synclaviers. These have a sound also, "The Art Of Noise" is a great example of the early Fairlight sound. Akai/Emu provided cheaper solutions with limitations, but it still took them several years to go from 12-bit to 16-bit (today, 24-bit is standard).
We actually released a 'five star' awarded Steinway Piano library in 1995 that had "2 velocity layers" that required "2 Akai samplers" to play all 32Mbs!! This is when the library Korg licensed was created. The audio suffered also as the converters in the Akai samplers, which it was initially made for, were crap, resulting in a hard sound. In those days, no one was thinking 16 velocity layers and dozens of articulations because nothing could play them.
The breakthrough came in 1997 with the release of GigaSampler, the first software sampler that could stream gigabytes of data from a hard drive, all made possible by a very clever use of the ram buffer to overcome latency. My company introduced that technology to the market in 1998. That provided the framework for todays virtual instruments. Our platinum orchestra library for example is 138 gigabytes in size - 10 years before it would have been a pipedream to play this. This amount of data is required to provide all of the expression and dynamics orchestral composers require.
In your case, orchestral sounds are not the focus of your music, guitars are, but IMO, your track would sound a whole lot better with our orchestral virtual instrument doing the string parts. The Gold version of our orchestra library is pretty inexpensive and requires moderate computing power, if you get it, and don't think it improves your track, I'll give you your money back.
- DR
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| Re: Mellotrons for the masses [message #301539 is a reply to message #301538 ] |
Mon, 31 December 2007 16:49   |
RSettee Messages: 4548 Registered: November 2006 Location: Winnipeg, MB |
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I'll check that out! I am quite happy with the sounds that I get....I have some preset customized synth strings on my MicroKorg that I really love. But i'm always up for some really articulated string sounds, too, as i've been trying to move into film scoring.
I don't actually work via computer. I do it via a 16 track digital multitrack. How would that work with what I have?
Ryan Settee,
Instrospection Records
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| Re: Mellotrons for the masses [message #301541 is a reply to message #301539 ] |
Mon, 31 December 2007 17:00   |
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Doug Rogers Messages: 171 Registered: January 2006 Location: Los Angeles |
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| RSettee wrote on Mon, 31 December 2007 22:49 | I'll check that out! I am quite happy with the sounds that I get....I have some preset customized synth strings on my MicroKorg that I really love. But i'm always up for some really articulated string sounds, too, as i've been trying to move into film scoring.
I don't actually work via computer. I do it via a 16 track digital multitrack. How would that work with what I have?
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If you are serious about moving into film scoring, you're going to need a good computer, sequencer, and a good selection of the best virtual instruments available - because the composers you will be competing with, our customers - Hans Zimmer, David Newman, Danny Elfman, James Newton Howard etc. etc., use these virtual instruments on a daily basis.
That's how I was able to buy Cello and spend millions on restoring it!
- DR
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| Re: Mellotrons for the masses [message #301555 is a reply to message #301339 ] |
Mon, 31 December 2007 17:18   |
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Brian Kehew Messages: 2632 Registered: January 2005 Location: North Hollywood |
Platinum Member |
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| maxim wrote on Sun, 30 December 2007 14:40 | maybe, it's just me, but i find it hard to get excited about a recreation of a machine that was invented to recreate an orchestra (and not very well at that)
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But we make a living recreating music that was once played by people in our studios, and then sell that recreation in a format people can play at home (or car) and recreate that performance again and again.
One thing a Mellotron isn't is consistent! (ask me how many hours I spent INSIDE one yesterday!)
Relax and float downstream...
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| Re: Mellotrons for the masses [message #301556 is a reply to message #301541 ] |
Mon, 31 December 2007 17:18   |
RSettee Messages: 4548 Registered: November 2006 Location: Winnipeg, MB |
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Oh, undoubtedly. There is a certain limitation to digital workstation keyboards that is constricting, but it also has some good sounds that I like, too. Buying a big rig is not in the cards right now for me, but maybe if I have someone who says, "we like your arrangements, perhaps with better sounds we'd hire you on" sort of thing, i'd be more inclined to move that way. And that probably wouldn't happen, because one really needs to consciously go full throttle towards a specific niche, i'm just trying to do a few things and then see maybe in a few years where I end up and maybe there will be something more clearly defined for me. I love the power of alot of instruments, as well as the power of performance, writing, producing, and engineering. A great orchestra part merged with traditional rock instruments has always intrigued me quite alot.
Ryan Settee,
Instrospection Records
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| Re: Mellotrons for the masses [message #301557 is a reply to message #300876 ] |
Mon, 31 December 2007 17:20   |
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Brian Kehew Messages: 2632 Registered: January 2005 Location: North Hollywood |
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I always like to repeat that MANY groups best knowns songs (from Bowie, to Moodies, to Aerosmith, to Oasis) use Mellotron.
I think it's a factor in emotional power...
Relax and float downstream...
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| Re: Mellotrons for the masses [message #301560 is a reply to message #301557 ] |
Mon, 31 December 2007 17:23   |
RSettee Messages: 4548 Registered: November 2006 Location: Winnipeg, MB |
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| Brian Kehew wrote on Mon, 31 December 2007 17:20 | I always like to repeat that MANY groups best knowns songs (from Bowie, to Moodies, to Aerosmith, to Oasis) use Mellotron.
I think it's a factor in emotional power...
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Emotional power, I agree, wins out. For every instrument. There's alot of singers that have sung with voices that aren't technically great, but there's something in the delivery, something in the way that they do it.
Ryan Settee,
Instrospection Records
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| Re: Mellotrons for the masses [message #302368 is a reply to message #302158 ] |
Fri, 04 January 2008 01:13   |
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| Rick Wakeman said: | I used to have two single Mellotrons, and a double special Mellotron. And the two single ones I had, I was so frustrated, because of tuning problems, and the tapes... And full of anger, I took the two Mellotrons into a field, a put petrol over them, and I fired them.
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At the time, at the time I enjoyed it, because they had ruined so many sessions through going wrong and breaking, but afterwards I regret it. Oh, of course I regret it! http://www.8trackheaven.com/birotron.html
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jeff dinces
cerberus audio services
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| Re: Mellotrons for the masses [message #302412 is a reply to message #302368 ] |
Fri, 04 January 2008 09:08   |
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phantom309 Messages: 2282 Registered: April 2006 Location: Calgary, AB. Canada |
Platinum Member |
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| cerberus wrote on Fri, 04 January 2008 00:13 |
| Rick Wakeman said: | I used to have two single Mellotrons, and a double special Mellotron. And the two single ones I had, I was so frustrated, because of tuning problems, and the tapes... And full of anger, I took the two Mellotrons into a field, a put petrol over them, and I fired them.
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At the time, at the time I enjoyed it, because they had ruined so many sessions through going wrong and breaking, but afterwards I regret it. Oh, of course I regret it! http://www.8trackheaven.com/birotron.html
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jeff dinces
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...and he now owns every Mellotron simulation/sample CD there is!
There are many, many Rick stories in the internet Mellotron boards.
About 1/3rd of the way into the M400 production, Mellotronics introduced a new motor control system callled the CMC10 (capstan motor control) and it was a disaster. That one component nearly ruined the company with it's sporadic failures. By the time they got around to fixing it with the SMS (servo motor system), the ARP string ensemble and a few other early polyphonics had taken over the market. They called it quits in 1981.
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| Re: Mellotrons for the masses [message #302578 is a reply to message #300876 ] |
Fri, 04 January 2008 19:34   |
maxim Messages: 5383 Registered: February 2005 |
Platinum Member |
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brian wrote:
"But we make a living recreating music that was once played by people in our studios..."
wwn ('whatever works' notwithstanding),
to its credit, the mellotron never even attempted to sound like real strings, unlike everything else that followed and failed, all the way up to the release of the vienna library (imo), when the computing power got strong enough and the virtual samplers got mature enough
the heart of the sampler is the samples, and mellotron's are definitely capable of creating interesting and evocative arrangements
just not my first choice when reaching for keyboard sounds...
ryan, if you like synths, i think you will definitely find satisfaction from a laptop/keyboard combo
2nd hand g4 ibook will only cost a couple hundred bucks and should have enough disk space to be used as a dedicated sampler (i'm very happy with the native instruments bundle, which can be played in "standalone" mode and includes a very capable sampler (as good as exs, imo), as well as decent b3 and prophet emulations, absynth, which may be the only good new digital synthesiser and massive, which is their new modular type synth (and a cpu-hogger, which can't be bad) (as well as a drum machine and fm7 emulator which i never use...))
spend some money on a decent controller with great action and a couple of great sample libraries, and you'll leave 20th century behind you in the dust
cheers,
max
sydney, oz
http://www.asylumdreams.com
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| Re: Mellotrons for the masses [message #302594 is a reply to message #300876 ] |
Fri, 04 January 2008 20:34   |
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I certainly thought at the time that they were indeed trying to recreate "real" strings (+) as best as they could.
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