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| Re: Steely Dan........ [message #340505 is a reply to message #340473 ] |
Sun, 11 May 2008 21:08   |
mdbeh
Messages: 93
Registered: April 2004 |
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| Jim Frazier wrote on Sun, 11 May 2008 17:47 |
| wwittman wrote on Sun, 11 May 2008 17:22 |
sterile or tweaked to within an inch of its life is not the same thing as "perfect"
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Very true.
But I'd argue let's not forget the platform that Steely Dan provided as a showcase for some pretty incredible instrumentalists.
Regardless of whether or not you like their music, the production, the recordings, etc... I 'd like to think all of us who are musicians can certainly appreciate the genius behind moments like Peter Christlibs tenor sax work on "Deacon Blues" and "FM", or Denny Diaz's guitar work on "Bottisava" and "Your Gold Teeth", or Steve Gadd's groove on "Aja", or Larry Carlton's 95% one take solo on "Kid Charlemene" and "Don't Take Me Alive"... the list goes on and on.
There's some very strong musical moments on all of their records. I personally do not feel that aspect is debatable. And yes, I realize the elitism of that statement...But I'm an opinionated bastard... 
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If it's "not debatable", why are you bothering to make the argument? And how would you be "an opinionated bastard" if you were stating an indisputable fact?
Really, I don't feel that strongly about Steely Dan one way or another. But the way their fans can't seem to express their enthusiasm without referring to the Phantom Taste Gods Who Shall Decree What Is Truly Good drives me crazy.
Brian Harper
Chicago, IL
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| Re: Steely Dan........ [message #340520 is a reply to message #340469 ] |
Sun, 11 May 2008 22:12 |
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 tom eaton
Messages: 2120
Registered: May 2004
Location: Newburyport, MA |
Platinum Member |
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| wwittman wrote on Sun, 11 May 2008 18:22 |
| tom eaton wrote on Sun, 11 May 2008 18:10 |
actually, I assume the records come out the way they do because Walter and Donald want them that way. which is to say, that they feel they have achieved what they set out to achieve. so it's not my assessment, really. they called the records done.
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well yes
and one might as safely assume that, for example, Kenny G and Rammstein equally make their ecords to the point they are satisfied and deem them "done"
but that is not to say that the records are "perfect" examples of their 'genres'
it's that word PERFECT
that's the part that I believe buys into their hype.
sterile or tweaked to within an inch of its life is not the same thing as "perfect"
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ww- you're not reading what i wrote, but that leads me into a greater thought about this thread.
i wrote "prefect execution of a singular aesthetic"
which means that i believe the dan records sound exactly as the artist intended.
i understand that you feel those intentions are misguided. i'm not a raving dan fan, so whatever... better to feel bad than to feel nothing at all (to paraphrase zevon).
but the thought leads me to this:
can we only judge the art by what it does for us, or can we judge it in terms of the degree to which it satisfies the intentions of the artist?
no one of us is omniscient, or has "universal" taste, or the same ears, history, etc., but we judge freely the creations of others with no regard to the needs that those creations HAVE met. and some of us declare our likes and dislikes with such emphasis and fervor that the opinion, and the HAVING of the opinion, becomes the center of the issue.
so, yes, i DO think that kenny g likes the records he makes, and is moved by them... i'm sure that the work resonates with him, and with many people who buy, listen, relax, have sex, whatever to the music. i know it doesn't work for me, but that does not declare it invalid art, as the opinion is not valuable to anyone but me.
-tom
thomas eaton recording
acoustic music guy
http://www.thomaseaton.com
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| Re: Steely Dan........ [message #340528 is a reply to message #339616 ] |
Sun, 11 May 2008 22:24 |
maxim
Messages: 5048
Registered: February 2005 |
Platinum Member |
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"...can we only judge the art by what it does for us"
yes (make that "i" and "me")
art doesn't exist without the audient
the artiste might a vision for the greatest art work ever produced, but all that matters is what comes across...
cheers,
max
sydney, oz
http://www.asylumdreams.com
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| Re: Steely Dan........ [message #340571 is a reply to message #340505 ] |
Mon, 12 May 2008 06:27 |
Jim Frazier
Messages: 281
Registered: April 2004
Location: Nashville |
Active Member |
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| mdbeh wrote on Sun, 11 May 2008 21:08 |
| Jim Frazier wrote on Sun, 11 May 2008 17:47 |
| wwittman wrote on Sun, 11 May 2008 17:22 |
sterile or tweaked to within an inch of its life is not the same thing as "perfect"
|
Very true.
But I'd argue let's not forget the platform that Steely Dan provided as a showcase for some pretty incredible instrumentalists.
Regardless of whether or not you like their music, the production, the recordings, etc... I 'd like to think all of us who are musicians can certainly appreciate the genius behind moments like Peter Christlibs tenor sax work on "Deacon Blues" and "FM", or Denny Diaz's guitar work on "Bottisava" and "Your Gold Teeth", or Steve Gadd's groove on "Aja", or Larry Carlton's 95% one take solo on "Kid Charlemene" and "Don't Take Me Alive"... the list goes on and on.
There's some very strong musical moments on all of their records. I personally do not feel that aspect is debatable. And yes, I realize the elitism of that statement...But I'm an opinionated bastard...
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If it's "not debatable", why are you bothering to make the argument? And how would you be "an opinionated bastard" if you were stating an indisputable fact?
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It was supposed to be "tongue & cheek".
Regardless of how I feel about any of it, I do truly realize it's only my tastes, my opinions... and I'll never expect or demand anyone else to feel the same way.
That would be silly... kind of like this thread...
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