| Re: Instructions to Session Drummer about Engineer's Preferred Methods [message #340069 is a reply to message #340050 ] |
Fri, 09 May 2008 13:05   |
 Bill Mueller
Messages: 2851
Registered: April 2004
Location: Joppatowne Maryland |
Platinum Member |
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| noeqplease wrote on Fri, 09 May 2008 13:13 |
| dguidry wrote on Fri, 09 May 2008 08:32 |
Do any of you have talks with your session drummers about preferred methods of playing to help make your drum mix better. If so please share them.
I would prefer that a drummer try to avoid hitting a crash symbol at the same time as a tom.
I would prefer that a drummer not use an open high hat as a ride cymbal.
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I want to say this Very Respectfully :
You have it completely wrong.
If you make ANY player play a song different, what you are in fact doing is REARRANGING a song to fit your mic technique. Let the drummer play what they are supposed to play, please.
You as an engineer have to figure out how YOU can record the drummer better. This means you have to figure out where to place your mics on the drumkit in order to capture it the best way possible. It does not mean you have to make someone else change the way they do things in order to make it easy for you.
This means you work on your mic technique, while the artist works on their song. Not the other way around.
Cheers
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Noeqplease,
What is your NAME? Do you have permission from the moderators to conceal yourself? If so, can somebody let us know? Thanks.
Having said that, I want to +1 what you just said and the way you said it. Very classy.
Dean,
You just stated a very controversial opinion in the form of a question and then reacted childishly when others responded to your post with all the respect (and in the case of noeqplease, more) that it deserved.
It sounds like you don't have the experience to properly drive a session. If you are a new producer, then you should pick players who make you sound better and let them do their thing, as others have already stated.
Best Regards,
Bill
"Don't take it personally. But this shit is a science." J.J.Blair
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| Re: Instructions to Session Drummer about Engineer's Preferred Methods [message #340090 is a reply to message #340082 ] |
Fri, 09 May 2008 14:07 |
dguidry
Messages: 290
Registered: January 2007 |
Active Member |
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| rankus wrote on Fri, 09 May 2008 13:47 |
As a producer (as opposed to engineer) I will guide a session cat after a couple of takes if need be: " a little less bash on the HH please,.. can I have a crash going into the first chorus,.. hold off on the ride until the last chorus".... etc.
BUT as an engineer I would keep my mouth shut tight.
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Let me make myself clear....I run the whole show...producer, engineer, picker, chart maker, coffee maker, bartender, legal adviser, but I don't do cables. Our usual session drummer is a great player, but tends to over do his cymbals a bit, not in terms of velocity, but more in terms of how often. I was having a hell of at time with mixing my Floor tom on a particular song because of this. I had to resort to Soundreplacer using Strike samples I had bounced. So it just came to me that I should ask if anyone had any suggestions on how to coach a drummer with respect to what might be a better or alternate technique that might solve this or any given problem....or maybe I should just raise the cymbals over the set up a bit like some suggested.
Studio 89
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| Re: Instructions to Session Drummer about Engineer's Preferred Methods [message #340092 is a reply to message #340019 ] |
Fri, 09 May 2008 14:12 |
jwhynot
Messages: 974
Registered: April 2004
Location: Los Angeles |
Gold Member |
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2 things are clear.
Your question.
Your attitude.
People will tend to respond first to the attitude, then to the question.
As far as how to coach the person I think beyond asking for what you want, calling someone else or moving your microphones the most potent piece of advice I have for you is learn to love what your players are doing.
Cheers
JW
www.natashaschneider.org
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| Re: Instructions to Session Drummer about Engineer's Preferred Methods [message #340097 is a reply to message #340092 ] |
Fri, 09 May 2008 14:23 |
dguidry
Messages: 290
Registered: January 2007 |
Active Member |
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| jwhynot wrote on Fri, 09 May 2008 14:12 |
2 things are clear.
Your question.
Your attitude.
People will tend to respond first to the attitude, then to the question.
As far as how to coach the person I think beyond asking for what you want, calling someone else or moving your microphones the most potent piece of advice I have for you is learn to love what your players are doing.
Cheers
JW
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You only see my writing attitude. It tends to be straight forward and blunt and this is probably because of my legal background. But Cajuns tend to phrase their language in a very non confrontational way, so you might really like me in person, mon cher.
Studio 89
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| Re: Instructions to Session Drummer about Engineer's Preferred Methods [message #340101 is a reply to message #340092 ] |
Fri, 09 May 2008 14:27 |
dguidry
Messages: 290
Registered: January 2007 |
Active Member |
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| jwhynot wrote on Fri, 09 May 2008 14:12 |
2 things are clear.
Your question.
Your attitude.
People will tend to respond first to the attitude, then to the question.
As far as how to coach the person I think beyond asking for what you want, calling someone else or moving your microphones the most potent piece of advice I have for you is learn to love what your players are doing.
Cheers
JW
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Afterthought:
I assume that by saying "Cheers" you are British and you never liked the French anyway, so you might not care.
Studio 89
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| Re: Instructions to Session Drummer about Engineer's Preferred Methods [message #340102 is a reply to message #340019 ] |
Fri, 09 May 2008 14:32 |
jwhynot
Messages: 974
Registered: April 2004
Location: Los Angeles |
Gold Member |
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QED.
Not British. I like the French.
It's bigots I have issues with.
Carry on.
JW
www.natashaschneider.org
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| Re: Instructions to Session Drummer about Engineer's Preferred Methods [message #340168 is a reply to message #340019 ] |
Fri, 09 May 2008 20:10 |
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Brian Kehew
Messages: 2729
Registered: January 2005
Location: North Hollywood |
Platinum Member |
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One more idea - how about a set of DARK and softer cymbals for the studio (especially HiHats!). This can save many a session - let them play normally but without the washy smashed sound...
Another thing is to not "tell" or "ask" them, but see if they will work with you on some "new things I'd like to try": set the cymbals higher up - the sometimes hit them less this way and give audio and physical space between the sources - and your mics. Or ask if he'll try a PZM taped to his chest, or mics right by his ears. When he thinks you're being creative and trying to get him a better sound, you can tell him what works for you AS you try it... "That sounds SO much cooler!"
Relax and float downstream...
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