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Re: Instructions to Session Drummer about Engineer's Preferred Methods [message #340170 is a reply to message #340168 ]

Fri, 09 May 2008 20:17

danickstr
Messages: 2562
Registered: April 2005
Location: Seattul

Platinum Member

or turn the cymbals up really loud in his cuemix with a ton of high eq on them, so it hurts his ears to hit them.... Laughing

Nick Dellos - MCPE Humanist Fleshlike Member
I like pizza. I reserve the right to make your PM's public for my own entertainment purposes.

Food for thought for the future: http://www.kurzweilai.net/

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Re: Instructions to Session Drummer about Engineer's Preferred Methods [message #340175 is a reply to message #340019 ]

Fri, 09 May 2008 20:40

maxim
Messages: 5048
Registered: February 2005

Platinum Member

to answer the ACTUAL QUESTION:

"with respect"

something that seems to be lacking in your general approach, dean

sometimes, INEXPERIENCED players aren't aware that drums sound different on tape than they do on stage or in their garage

ime, you can talk to anyone about anything, if you treat them with respect

when it comes to creativity, there is a LOT of ego defensiveness going on, with most artistes feeling that they are BOTH superior and inferior to everyone else AT THE SAME TIME

what brian says is spot-on

i'm sure there are rude people of cajun origin, just as there are considerate ones

fwiw, i always tell musicians what i'd like them to shoot for in the session

here's daniel lanois talking to a drummer (3:44)

watch and learn (i was going to post it in the clasroom thread, but it belongs here somehow)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75dYhzQ7Is0&feature=relat ed

cheers,
max
sydney, oz

http://www.asylumdreams.com

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Re: Instructions to Session Drummer about Engineer's Preferred Methods [message #340178 is a reply to message #340019 ]

Fri, 09 May 2008 20:54

Paul Cavins
Messages: 300
Registered: October 2005

Active Member

That's a great video with Lanois.

I LOVE how he expresses his drumming wishes by singing the melody. What a right-on mindset.

PC

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Re: Instructions to Session Drummer about Engineer's Preferred Methods [message #340205 is a reply to message #340069 ]

Sat, 10 May 2008 06:03

Nick Sevilla
Messages: 131
Registered: March 2008
Location: Los Angeles CA USA Planet...

Active Member

Bill Mueller wrote on Fri, 09 May 2008 11:05

noeqplease wrote on Fri, 09 May 2008 13:13

dguidry wrote on Fri, 09 May 2008 08:32

Do any of you have talks with your session drummers about preferred methods of playing to help make your drum mix better. If so please share them.

I would prefer that a drummer try to avoid hitting a crash symbol at the same time as a tom.

I would prefer that a drummer not use an open high hat as a ride cymbal.

I want to say this Very Respectfully :

You have it completely wrong.

If you make ANY player play a song different, what you are in fact doing is REARRANGING a song to fit your mic technique. Let the drummer play what they are supposed to play, please.

You as an engineer have to figure out how YOU can record the drummer better. This means you have to figure out where to place your mics on the drumkit in order to capture it the best way possible. It does not mean you have to make someone else change the way they do things in order to make it easy for you.

This means you work on your mic technique, while the artist works on their song. Not the other way around.

Cheers

Noeqplease,

What is your NAME? Do you have permission from the moderators to conceal yourself? If so, can somebody let us know? Thanks.

Having said that, I want to +1 what you just said and the way you said it. Very classy.

Dean,

You just stated a very controversial opinion in the form of a question and then reacted childishly when others responded to your post with all the respect (and in the case of noeqplease, more) that it deserved.

It sounds like you don't have the experience to properly drive a session. If you are a new producer, then you should pick players who make you sound better and let them do their thing, as others have already stated.

Best Regards,

Bill

Hi Bill,

I'm Nick Sevilla.

www.nicksevilla.com

I'll check my forum info, I don't recall having anything other tan the default settings on there...

Cheers

You, Flock of Seagulls, know why we're here?

Nick Sevilla

www.nicksevilla.com

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Re: Instructions to Session Drummer about Engineer's Preferred Methods [message #340252 is a reply to message #340205 ]

Sat, 10 May 2008 12:35

rankus
Messages: 3986
Registered: March 2005
Location: Vancouver Canada

Platinum Member

I asked my session guy to play no cymbals on a recent New Wave tracking date, so that I can add the hits later when we determine what we need... We think we may not add any cymbals though, because we are really digging the vibe!

Brians post above is right on the money... I always try to include the muso in the decision making... it makes for a more relaxed atmosphere of "experimentation" . I try to pose my ideas as questions: "what do think about trying this with no cymbals" then explain why when they ask.

Rick Welin - Clark Drive Studios www.hellfirerecords.com

"Make it count." ~ T Manning

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Re: Instructions to Session Drummer about Engineer's Preferred Methods [message #340257 is a reply to message #340019 ]

Sat, 10 May 2008 13:07

MDM,
Messages: 573
Registered: January 2008

Gold Member

you don't work with a producer? maybe that's the real issue.

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Re: Instructions to Session Drummer about Engineer's Preferred Methods [message #340260 is a reply to message #340019 ]

Sat, 10 May 2008 13:33

groundhog
Messages: 1264
Registered: January 2006
Location: organica studio , st . pa...

Platinum Member

This topic is WHACK. no pun intended

dguidry wrote on Fri, 09 May 2008 11:32

You seem to have *arrangement* issues ....... otherwise , voicing whatever your concerns are for a given project without kicking their ego in the balls is my only genral rule of thumb . But hey , I live in a tiny servants quarter in St. Paul , Minnesota , So wtf would I know ....

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Re: Instructions to Session Drummer about Engineer's Preferred Methods [message #340309 is a reply to message #340019 ]

Sat, 10 May 2008 19:59

Fenris.
Messages: 95
Registered: January 2006
Location: Northern California

Member

The best solution is to give up audio engineering, become a drummer, and play the fucking things yourself. That's what I did.

mobile recording on a shoestring

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Re: Instructions to Session Drummer about Engineer's Preferred Methods [message #340335 is a reply to message #340019 ]

Sat, 10 May 2008 22:16

littlehat
Messages: 741
Registered: October 2005
Location: NYC

Gold Member

Okay.

Jumping in to a hot zone...

Every drummer I've ever recorded (a lot less than some real heavy hitters here (pun!)) has played a clam-less pass and come in to hear it. As the track plays, and this goes for many seperate players, we talk about the performance.

You can tell a hired player you don't like a particular fill or the feel or approach on a section of a song. I have a close friend who hires out in LA, and he is happy to change a part.

Like a good engineer, a session players job is to make his client happy. If this isn't the attitude of your drummer, you can find a better one. If you can't ask for what you want from the player, learn how to.

None of us can be expected to do a good job if the job is not defined.

Push the RED button!

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Re: Instructions to Session Drummer about Engineer's Preferred Methods [message #340346 is a reply to message #340260 ]

Sat, 10 May 2008 23:37

Bill Mueller
Messages: 2493
Registered: April 2004
Location: Joppatowne Maryland

Platinum Member

groundhog wrote on Sat, 10 May 2008 14:33

But hey , I live in a tiny servants quarter in St. Paul , Minnesota , So wtf would I know ....

Andy,

We are all servants.

Best Regards,

Bill

"Don't take it personally. But this shit is a science." J.J.Blair

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Re: Instructions to Session Drummer about Engineer's Preferred Methods [message #340604 is a reply to message #340019 ]

Mon, 12 May 2008 09:26

groundhog
Messages: 1264
Registered: January 2006
Location: organica studio , st . pa...

Platinum Member

Agreed .

A combination of too much tea , workload and something ( ?) while reading this thread sparked a mini blast . No offense intended .

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Re: Instructions to Session Drummer about Engineer's Preferred Methods [message #340612 is a reply to message #340101 ]

Mon, 12 May 2008 10:27

charlie f
Messages: 13
Registered: April 2008

Member

[quote title=dguidry wrote on Fri, 09 May 2008 14:27][quote title=j

Afterthought:

I assume that by saying "Cheers" you are British and you never liked the French anyway, so you might not care.[/quote]

You also assume that 'the British' en masse dislike 'the French' as a matter of course which is a prejudice of yours. It's not true for me - I'm British. You further assume that 'the British' would make the link between Cajun and French, which is unlikely for most of the population.

That's beyond pointing out that taking the time to deal with your query at all implies that Jwhynot is, indeed, caring.

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Re: Instructions to Session Drummer about Engineer's Preferred Methods [message #340627 is a reply to message #340612 ]

Mon, 12 May 2008 11:31

dguidry
Messages: 174
Registered: January 2007

Active Member

[quote title=charlie f wrote on Mon, 12 May 2008 10:27][quote title=dguidry wrote on Fri, 09 May 2008 14:27]

j

Afterthought:

I assume that by saying "Cheers" you are British and you never liked the French anyway, so you might not care.[/quote

You also assume that 'the British' en masse dislike 'the French' as a matter of course which is a prejudice of yours. It's not true for me - I'm British. You further assume that 'the British' would make the link between Cajun and French, which is unlikely for most of the population.

That's beyond pointing out that taking the time to deal with your query at all implies that Jwhynot is, indeed, caring.

You have to know Cajun history to understand my issues with the British Government and the Queen.

Studio 89

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Re: Instructions to Session Drummer about Engineer's Preferred Methods [message #340642 is a reply to message #340019 ]

Mon, 12 May 2008 12:18

jwhynot
Messages: 889
Registered: April 2004
Location: Los Angeles

Gold Member

I'm neither the British Government nor the Queen.

Don't understand your confusion on that topic.

If you want to rattle cages for entertainment there are people better able and more willing to growl at you than me.

Carry on.
JW

www.natashaschneider.org

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Re: Instructions to Session Drummer about Engineer's Preferred Methods [message #340657 is a reply to message #340019 ]

Mon, 12 May 2008 12:42

Andres Gonzalez
Messages: 168
Registered: October 2004
Location: Central New Jersey

Active Member

As an engineer, I view this as a challenge for me not the drummer.

For example, recently I recorded a drummer that had his ride cymbal very low and close to his floor tom. When it came time to mix, I had a lot of trouble getting that floor tom hot enough without getting the ride cymbal too hot.

But I view this as my problem to solve, not his. I have to figure out a way to mic his set better next time. The reason this was problematic at mix time was because I did not do a good enough job at micing the set.

Most problems I come across at mix time can be traced back directly to a bad choice on my own part when I recorded the original track (excluding any issues with the talent of the artist or musician, of course Smile

-Andres

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Re: Instructions to Session Drummer about Engineer's Preferred Methods [message #340660 is a reply to message #340612 ]

Mon, 12 May 2008 12:48

MagnetoSound
Messages: 1146
Registered: October 2007
Location: Southern England

Platinum Member

charlie f wrote on Mon, 12 May 2008 16:27

Yeah .... we're all xenophobic dunces. Cajun? What you on about? That's a kind of chicken.

And we don't dislike the French, we hate 'em. Wink

'No one has had it better than the baby boomer generation. At a hell of a cost. The saving grace is that the new generations have absolutely no clue how much of their rightful legacy has been squandered - or else it would get pretty ugly out there.'
- Tony Katsabanis

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