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| Re: New TLM102: The Cheapest Large Condenser Neumann [message #453370 is a reply to message #453297 ] |
Fri, 06 November 2009 10:49   |
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 Fletcher
Messages: 2691
Registered: April 2004
Location: München |
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| Oliver Archut wrote on Thu, 05 November 2009 22:53 |
I don't fully doubt your experience, but do take it with a grain of salt as you are a manufacturer of microphones who may have an ulterior motive [not saying you do, but the possibility does exist].
A friend of mine told me once that if a company has to point out that it is a professional microphone, it probably is not.
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No disrespect intended, and I hope none was taken. My point was, that while I don't doubt your experience with the product, I take everything with a grain of salt these days unless I have experienced the same phenomenon... which in this case I have not. Could be do to my lack of "day to day" working experience with the product, but again, I have not had the problem you have had. Nothing more, nothing less, sorry if my words came out wrong and I inadvertently shot an "implication".
As to Stayne's "Innertube" product. The "Mag Mic" I have has a new style Nylon / Teflon CK-12 esque capsule. I also had a few of these capsules in my inventory of capsules for a while and traded them to Stayne for some damn thing I can't remember at the moment as he said he needed them for building more "Mag Mics" [and as I thought they were pretty much worthless, thought it was a good trade at the time though I don't remember what the hell we traded for].
CN Fletcher
TELEFUNKEN Elektroakustik
mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33
We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid
"Recording engineers are an arrogant bunch.
If you've spent most of your life with a few thousand dollars worth of musicians in the studio, making a decision every second and a half... and you and they are going to have to live with it for the rest of your lives, you'll get pretty arrogant too. It takes a certain amount of balls to do that... something around three"
Malcolm Chisholm
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| Re: New TLM102: The Cheapest Large Condenser Neumann [message #453517 is a reply to message #453283 ] |
Sat, 07 November 2009 14:07 |
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Schallfeldnebel
Messages: 796
Registered: October 2004
Location: Europe |
Gold Member |
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Klaus wrote:"It's certainly hard to have an intelligent discussion about AKG's CK12 capsule, when they gave two rather different capsules the same name."
Klaus, I wonder if the Teflon CK12 in the C414 ULS and the Teflon CK12 in the TLII are "different" capsules. While searching for a good C422, looking through many charts of C422's and C426's, I saw 6 dB in tolerances. To me it looks like Teflon CK12 capsules that have a large presence peak are sold as TLII's and the ones within more norrow tolerances are sold as the more linear ones. Off course this is speculation, but the charts I have seen proof the wide tolerences.
BTW, we are very off topic.
Erik Sikkema
Bill Mueller:"Only very recently, has the availability of cheap consumer based gear popularized the concept of a rank amateur as an audio engineer. Unfortunately, this has also degraded the reputation of the audio engineer to the lowest level in its history. A sad thing indeed for those of us professionals."
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| Re: New TLM102: The Cheapest Large Condenser Neumann [message #453522 is a reply to message #453517 ] |
Sat, 07 November 2009 15:43 |
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Klaus Heyne
Messages: 2942
Registered: April 2004 |
Platinum Member |
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| Schallfeldnebel wrote on Sat, 07 November 2009 12:07 |
Klaus, I wonder if the Teflon CK12 in the C414 ULS and the Teflon CK12 in the TLII are "different" capsules.
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Off topic or not, it's an important distinction that readers need to know:
These are two different Teflon capsules. The original CK12 Teflon was rather gray in sound, and neutral in its midrange response.
In the late 1980s, AKG tried to regain market share for the 414 series of solid state mics by re-shaping the backplate of that capsule, using (should I be proud?) a couple of my fine tuned original CK12 brass capsules from Peter Wolf's (Austrian producer for Foreigner, and others) C12 collection as template. They then added the"TLII" suffix to the otherwise unchanged 414 ULS.. They also used that same capsule in the re-vamped "The Tube" mic, which was consequently renamed "C12 VR".
So, quite different from, let's say, Shure, which used the unavoidable capsule manufacturing tolerances to segregate SM56, 57, and 58 capsules, there where actual design differences between the two CK12 Teflon capsules.
Why you would experience such a large spread in high frequency response among otherwise identical designs, I cannot understand, as tolerances for capsules (and whole mics) are normally limited to a max of ±4dB or better by the major manufacturers.
Klaus Heyne
German Masterworks
www.GermanMasterworks.com
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| Re: New TLM102: The Cheapest Large Condenser Neumann [message #453603 is a reply to message #453522 ] |
Sun, 08 November 2009 12:04 |
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Schallfeldnebel
Messages: 796
Registered: October 2004
Location: Europe |
Gold Member |
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To be more precise I saw differences from -2 to +4 dB, hence the 6dB. Within the 422/426 stereo microphopne itself I saw differences of 2 dB. Used to the narrow tolerances of DPA microphones, I find these differences rather high.
Erik Sikkema
Bill Mueller:"Only very recently, has the availability of cheap consumer based gear popularized the concept of a rank amateur as an audio engineer. Unfortunately, this has also degraded the reputation of the audio engineer to the lowest level in its history. A sad thing indeed for those of us professionals."
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| Re: New TLM102: The Cheapest Large Condenser Neumann [message #453770 is a reply to message #453767 ] |
Mon, 09 November 2009 12:29 |
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Klaus Heyne
Messages: 2942
Registered: April 2004 |
Platinum Member |
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I was referring to the capsule, not the mic. And, yes, the TLII was a transformer-less version of the original 414 ULS, which itself was a successor to the C414 EB.
Klaus Heyne
German Masterworks
www.GermanMasterworks.com
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| Re: New TLM102: The Cheapest Large Condenser Neumann [message #454829 is a reply to message #453522 ] |
Mon, 16 November 2009 05:33 |
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Schallfeldnebel
Messages: 796
Registered: October 2004
Location: Europe |
Gold Member |
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Back on topic, the frequency curve of the TLM102 is now available on the Neumann site. It looks very alike the curve of the SM69fet switched at cardioid. We may expect a slightly sharp high-end. Comparing the 102 with the 103, the presence peak starts a bit later with the 102, but gets a bit steeper at the maximum, and rolls off a little bit more early. Both peak at +4.
I really wonder what the design thought behind this microphones was. Just a cheap large membrane, or customised for a certain user group.
Bill Mueller:"Only very recently, has the availability of cheap consumer based gear popularized the concept of a rank amateur as an audio engineer. Unfortunately, this has also degraded the reputation of the audio engineer to the lowest level in its history. A sad thing indeed for those of us professionals."
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