| Asked but still not answered - White Album Pre's [message #42616] |
Mon, 31 January 2005 18:27  |
TKay
Messages: 1
Registered: January 2005
Location: Georgia |
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I'm looking to upgrade my front end pre's. My favorite LP of all time is the White Album. The sound of that album was so open. I realize that the pre's don't make the entire sound but I would still like to narrow it down to what was actually used on that album.
Upon doing a search in REP, someone suggested that the pre's were Telefunken's. So I went searching. I spoke to David Marquette. He said that the Telefunken's were used in the early EMI desks for the Beatles but that they had changed by the time the White Album was recorded and that the pre's were custom EMI's from the REDD 47 (hope I'm quoting him right). So I found Revolution Recording Equipment. So it seems like I'm narrowing the search but I would love any input here if there is more to be added.
Also, if there are more suggestions to as what other pre's should be considered (that are in the genre of pre's that I'm inquiring about), I would appreciate the information.
I am looking at the Chandler pieces, as well. At the moment, I'm willing to hear all opinions. But I A/B'd the White Album against Abbey Road and, for me, there is no comparison. Different people, different techniques, different studio - I get it.
Thanks for any input.
Thomas
http://www.78recording.com
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| Re: Asked but still not answered - White Album Pre's [message #204236 is a reply to message #42616 ] |
Thu, 07 December 2006 03:08  |
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Brian Kehew
Messages: 2632
Registered: January 2005
Location: North Hollywood |
Platinum Member |
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The "Recording the Beatles" book will certainly explain much of what you seek, and more. The reviews from the public (search online) have been quite good.
Be aware that
(a) MOST of the recording was done in Studio Two at EMI: This was the desk built using REDD.47 preamps (and line amps - pay attention to this factor). The Revolution mic pre is the closest available thing to this, as only one EMI desk exists with the originals.
(b) Some of the songs on that album were done elsewhere. So, maybe you have found "a sound" that exists more in one's head than in reality. Try making a list of what songs have "that tone" you like, then read about which ones were recorded outside AFTER you make the list. Read about the mixing ideas AFTER you make the list - it might be that you prefer the songs recorded outside of EMI, or that you like the ones with extreme EQ effects....?
Relax and float downstream...
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| Re: Asked but still not answered - White Album Pre's [message #204237 is a reply to message #42616 ] |
Thu, 07 December 2006 03:10 |
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Brian Kehew
Messages: 2632
Registered: January 2005
Location: North Hollywood |
Platinum Member |
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I would generally agree that White Album sounds different than Abbey Road: but almost every Beatles album sounds different than the one before it, even!
Relax and float downstream...
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| Re: Asked but still not answered - White Album Pre's [message #204293 is a reply to message #204236 ] |
Thu, 07 December 2006 10:18 |
 Ashermusic
Messages: 625
Registered: August 2005
Location: L.A. |
Gold Member |
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| Brian Kehew wrote on Thu, 07 December 2006 09:08 |
The "Recording the Beatles" book will certainly explain much of what you seek, and more. The reviews from the public (search online) have been quite good.
Be aware that
(a) MOST of the recording was done in Studio Two at EMI: This was the desk built using REDD.47 preamps (and line amps - pay attention to this factor). The Revolution mic pre is the closest available thing to this, as only one EMI desk exists with the originals.
(b) Some of the songs on that album were done elsewhere. So, maybe you have found "a sound" that exists more in one's head than in reality. Try making a list of what songs have "that tone" you like, then read about which ones were recorded outside AFTER you make the list. Read about the mixing ideas AFTER you make the list - it might be that you prefer the songs recorded outside of EMI, or that you like the ones with extreme EQ effects....?
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So Brian in your opinion is the Revolution mic pre still one of the best or merely an emulation of what was the best at that time that was available to them?
And do they have a website for the Revolution?
BTW, I just finished reading "Recording The Beatles." I have not had that much fun in a while. Yopu guys did an incredible job.
And now "Rocky Balboa" comes out in a couple of weeks. What more could I ask for?
Composer, Logic Pro Certified Trainer, Level 2
www.jayasher.com
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| Re: Asked but still not answered - White Album Pre's [message #212682 is a reply to message #42616 ] |
Sat, 13 January 2007 13:51 |
Tdstotler
Messages: 30
Registered: January 2007
Location: Sharpsburg |
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They were definlty Redd 47's on the White Album.
They were also doing some radically different things on that album then the prior ones. I know that on alot of tracks they took the signal output on the desk and then fed it back into another channel for more gain, then another channel etc..etc..
Best audio example of this is on Savoy Truffle (the horns were apparently done this way). I read that Emerick was afraid of blowing the tubes but nothing happened. Also they
were Direct Injecting tons of things (guitars in revolution).
I have always thought that the White Album had a very
'Tubey Distoration sound to it'.
I have been trying to get that Bass sound for years
(yes I know I need Paul here really), but the Bass sound
on tracks like Savory Truffle, Everybodys got something to hide, sound so thick and juicy with alot of attack. I bet
the Altec compressors had alot to do with that as well.
Emerick only engineered half of the White album, he quit half way through, on the day they were recording Cry Baby Cry.
Also Martin walked out (his excuse was vacation) and Chris Thomas produced alot of the remainder tracks.
From all accounts like Let it Be, these were NOT pleasent
recording sessions.
It gets sometimes fuzzy when they record elsewhere. Sometimes they would record and mix the enitre track in another studio (Baby is a rich man, great example of start to finish in one session). Other times they would just track at another studio, then bring the track back for mixing on the Redd desk. So you still get that Redd sound in there somewhere.
But yeah the sound on that album is amazing. Personally
Abbey Road is my favorite sonic gem.
Todd
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| Re: Asked but still not answered - White Album Pre's [message #212769 is a reply to message #42616 ] |
Sat, 13 January 2007 22:25 |
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What was in the Saville Row studio?
I was in there one time, but don't remember specific equipment.
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| Re: Asked but still not answered - White Album Pre's [message #212964 is a reply to message #42616 ] |
Mon, 15 January 2007 06:17 |
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Brian Kehew
Messages: 2632
Registered: January 2005
Location: North Hollywood |
Platinum Member |
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I would say "the mic pre" is not responsible for "the sound of the White Album". Especially since they used this mic pre on almost every track since 1964, and they do not sound the same to us.
Even the Altec compressors were there, and more etc etc from previous years - not much changed in the gear; it's the WAY they used it. Look closely at the eq done on some tracks (full treble/bass on ALL tracks when mixing.) That would be more significant, as might the use of 1" 8-track 3M vs. 1" 4-track Studer J37.
The Revolution mic pre is as close to a clone of the original as we may ever see, and it is expensive for this reason. Other companies may try to make one, but would likely skimp on parts to save $. It would still sound great but likely no one will ever make the exact REDD47 ever again.
However, I am still waiting to hear from the Revolution company on equiment I (and others) sent there ages ago with payment - no emails, no returned phone calls.
Relax and float downstream...
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| Re: Asked but still not answered - White Album Pre's [message #212990 is a reply to message #212903 ] |
Mon, 15 January 2007 08:34 |
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| Tdstotler wrote on Sun, 14 January 2007 19:49 |
Well with Saville Row you really had three era's of studios in a short time.
First you had the Magic Alex studio, if you could call it a studio.
Then you had all the mobile gear that was brought in for the Let it Be sessions since Alex's setup was total crap and unusable.
Then you had the 'proper' studio afterwards. I dont know exactly what they had gear wise but I have a lot of good promotional pictures that were taken in there around winter 69 that has some good shots of the control room.
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I didn't mean the Magic Alex junk, of course.
It was Sept-Oct of '69 that I was there, so those pix probably would show what I saw.
Could you post a couple?
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| Re: Asked but still not answered - White Album Pre's [message #213166 is a reply to message #212964 ] |
Tue, 16 January 2007 05:35 |
maxdimario
Messages: 3811
Registered: December 2004 |
Platinum Member |
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| Brian Kehew wrote on Mon, 15 January 2007 13:17 |
I would say "the mic pre" is not responsible for "the sound of the White Album". Especially since they used this mic pre on almost every track since 1964, and they do not sound the same to us.
Even the Altec compressors were there, and more etc etc from previous years - not much changed in the gear; it's the WAY they used it. Look closely at the eq done on some tracks (full treble/bass on ALL tracks when mixing.) That would be more significant, as might the use of 1" 8-track 3M vs. 1" 4-track Studer J37.
The Revolution mic pre is as close to a clone of the original as we may ever see, and it is expensive for this reason. Other companies may try to make one, but would likely skimp on parts to save $. It would still sound great but likely no one will ever make the exact REDD47 ever again.
However, I am still waiting to hear from the Revolution company on equiment I (and others) sent there ages ago with payment - no emails, no returned phone calls.
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this has happened a few months back and they said they were going to send your stuff back..
I would not expect service from them in case of warranty or otherwise at this point..
...as far as the beatles, if you look at the videos the rooms were different, and the 8 track meant there was less machine-to-machine overdubbing like previous albums..
that and the beatles not overdubbing as much in general (as well as the solid-state 8 track amps) is already enough of a change..
I peronally think the white album sounds a bit whimpy sonic-wise, but everyone has their own tastes I guess..
it also depends on what playback system you use..
the best recordings to me from a hi-fi point of view were the early ones.
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| Re: Asked but still not answered - White Album Pre's [message #213167 is a reply to message #42616 ] |
Tue, 16 January 2007 05:37 |
maxdimario
Messages: 3811
Registered: December 2004 |
Platinum Member |
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I would not worry about redd 47's going out of production..
they are relatively easy to manufacture compared to V72's for example, which are incredibly difficult to reproduce BECAUSE OF THE TRANSFORMERS AND INDUCTORS.
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| Re: Asked but still not answered - White Album Pre's [message #213172 is a reply to message #42616 ] |
Tue, 16 January 2007 06:13 |
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Brian Kehew
Messages: 2632
Registered: January 2005
Location: North Hollywood |
Platinum Member |
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Yes, it's attention to those details that will make it tough to do a REDD47 the way John Hinson has. I have called him again today and left a message.
Note that it's an incredible challenge when the artist (as several songs were mixed on the White Album) were treated to full bass and treble at the mix stage. It no longer becomes about sonic "niceness", but level and panning balances to make the mix work. An odd challenge, but you hear the results... and it IS fun to work with such limitations sometimes.
Relax and float downstream...
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| Re: Asked but still not answered - White Album Pre's [message #213173 is a reply to message #42616 ] |
Tue, 16 January 2007 06:16 |
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Brian Kehew
Messages: 2632
Registered: January 2005
Location: North Hollywood |
Platinum Member |
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>>the best recordings to me from a hi-fi point of view were the early ones.<<
Agreed, in fact, most of the PRE-Beatles Abbey Road music is superior, sonically speaking. Try to find and hear "Goodness Gracious Me" with Peter Sellars and Sophia Lauren: absolutely amazing sonic quality.
Relax and float downstream...
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