Home » R/E/P Archives » Reason In Audio » Marshal MXL V69 tube mic...Opinions anyone ???
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| Re: Marshal MXL V69 tube mic...Opinions anyone ??? [message #78461 is a reply to message #78437 ] |
Wed, 20 July 2005 10:43   |
 djwayne
Messages: 167
Registered: February 2005 |
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Here's a quickie sound sample of the V-69 on a Martin D-18.....
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| Re: Marshal MXL V69 tube mic...Opinions anyone ??? [message #79996 is a reply to message #78437 ] |
Thu, 28 July 2005 09:42 |
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ricknroll
Messages: 361
Registered: April 2004
Location: PDX |
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| djwayne wrote on Wed, 20 July 2005 07:52 |
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Reviews are comparing it to a Neumann U-47 for sound quality....
Some say it's the best mic for under $1,000.....
People who have them seem to like them alot....
Very few are coming up used on E-Bay
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I have a V69ME, and while I don't own a U47, I have used a couple different U47s owned by a friend (the VF14 version). The V69 is not even close to a U47. I recently bought a used M147, and while it's no U47 either, it puts the V69ME to shame. There are a number of things...first, the noise floor of the V69ME is relatively high. The stock tube that came with mine sucked, so I replaced it with an NOS Jan Philips tube. That lowered the noise floor and got rid of some weird rumbling sounds, but it's still a relatively noisy mic. Second, the MXL has the typical out of control high end and scooped mids that seem to characterize most inexpensive Chinese mics (I also have the MXL V67 and the Studio Projects B1). Third, the M147 just sounds much more focused than the V69ME - the V69ME has a murky quality to it, its exaggerated highs notwithstanding. The V69ME also seems to add a subtle distortion. Whether on acoustic guitar, vocals, piano, handclaps, or any other source I've tried, I have so far always prefered the M147. The V69ME just sounds cheap, although when I didn't have a better LDC mic I thought it sounded fine. I also recently bought a Sennheiser 441 on eBay for $340, and it sounds much better than the V69ME, so in my opinion you can definitely find a better sound under $1000 (the 441 is obviously a dynamic, but it sounds like a condenser).
It may be that the MXL V69ME is one of the best-sounding LDC mic with a tube in it for under $300, but I don't think that's saying much in the grand scheme of things. I recommend saving a little more and getting something better that you won't think sucks once you can afford something nicer.
-Rick Hedges
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| Re: Marshal MXL V69 tube mic...Opinions anyone ??? [message #80009 is a reply to message #79996 ] |
Thu, 28 July 2005 10:32 |
djwayne
Messages: 167
Registered: February 2005 |
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Well, where were you BEFORE I bought the mic ??
First off, to compare the V-69 with any Neumann is a stretch, just on cost alone. The M-147 you love has a list price of $2,400, that's a huge difference in price from $300. I would hope the $2,400 mic would sound at least a little bit better.
Secondly, I'm not experiencing any noise problems with the mic at all. So far, I've very satisfied with the sound and operation of the mic. The only thing I would change is a better quality shockmount. The one that comes with the mic works, but I'd like something a little better.
Third, I have no intentions of swapping out the tube, as that would void the manufaturer's one year warranty. I have no idea on the characturistics of the NOS tube and it does not have the manufacture's approval at this time. The mic was designed to work with a specific tube, changing that may cause other components to fail or shorten their life. The tube may run a little hotter or put out a higher voltage that may cause a problem with other components. It may work fine for awhile, but what are the long term effects ?? Have you tested it over a period of time...will you buy me a new mic if it burns mine out, say in a month from now ????
Fourth, Buying a new or used mic on E-Bay is a gamble. Has the mic been dropped, was some 14 year old kid drueling and spitting all over it ?? Did UPS kick it around ?? What if it arrives DOA, how much aggrevation is involved in replacing it ??? I bought the mic at the local Sam Ash store, who had it in stock and two others and in the event mine wasn't working, I could easily exchange it. Plus I was able to test it out before leaving the store.
Fifth, It does the job for the intended use, and fits within my budget. Unless I hit the lottery, it'll be awhile before I can spend thousands on microphones. So I need something now...not ten years from now.
Sixth, I recently did some sound checks with some mics. I A/B'd a Sennheiser 421, AKG C-1000 and Superlux CM-H8A, I couldn't wait to sell the 421....I sold the C-1000, but with reservations...I kept the Superlux. The V-69 and Superlux seem to work well together.
So all in all, the V-69 purchase was a good deal for me, and is a great addition to my studio.
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| Re: Marshal MXL V69 tube mic...Opinions anyone ??? [message #80012 is a reply to message #80009 ] |
Thu, 28 July 2005 10:54 |
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ricknroll
Messages: 361
Registered: April 2004
Location: PDX |
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| djwayne wrote on Thu, 28 July 2005 08:32 |
First off, to compare the V-69 with any Neumann is a stretch, just on cost alone. The M-147 you love has a list price of $2,400, that's a huge difference in price from $300. I would hope the $2,400 mic would sound at least a little bit better.
Secondly, I'm not experiencing any noise problems with the mic at all. So far, I've very satisfied with the sound and operation of the mic. The only thing I would change is a better quality shockmount. The one that comes with the mic works, but I'd like something a little better.
Third, I have no intentions of swapping out the tube, as that would void the manufaturer's one year warranty.
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I agree that it's unfair to expect a $300 Chinese LDC to sound like a $2400 Neumann, but you wrote that you heard the V69 compared favorably to a U47, and I read a similar thing in a Tape Op review. So yeah, I'm saying that this is not a valid comparison, and the reviews are (obviously in my opinion) wrong. If $300 is your budget, the V69 could very well be the best-sounding tube LDC around, but anyone who claims it sounds close to a U47 is smoking something.
Regarding the noise issue, when I purchased my V69, I didn't think it was noisy - it's only now that I have a basis for comparison that the noise bugs me.
And finally, regarding tube swapping, I've had my V69 for more than a year, but I would be surprised if changing tubes really voided the warranty. The mic definitely sounds better with the higher quality tube, but if you're happy with the way it sounds, then there's no reason to change. Again, I'm not saying that we should expect a $300 Chinese to sound like a $2000+ Neumann (mine was about $1200 used), but reviews we've apparently both read claim otherwise, and I totally disagree with that. On the other hand, if I hadn't first tried the V69, I probably wouldn't appreciate the M147 sound as much now.
-Rick
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| Re: Marshal MXL V69 tube mic...Opinions anyone ??? [message #80013 is a reply to message #74342 ] |
Thu, 28 July 2005 10:55 |
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Congratulations on your new mic. If it works well for you, then it's job is done.
I would venture to say that an NOS tube (valve) would not be a "different" tube for your mic IF you choose one which is the exact same type as specified by the manufacturer. "NOS" just means "new old stock," or in other words, a tube (valve) which was manufactured years ago, in the heyday of tube manufacture, probably in the 60's or 70's, or perhaps 80's. Another common term, "JAN" stands for "Joint Army Navy," which were tubes manufactured especially for, and under specification from, the US Government, which at the time had a lot of tube equipment in their NORAD and other Defense installations. They stockpiled many millions of tubes for potential future use, and millions of those were never used, but were later sold to wholesalers in gigantic lots. Those are now on the market from many dealers.
But an NOS or JAN (or both) tube would still have a specific "model" designation, such as 12AX7, or 6L6, or any of the others. Those would surely be acceptable to any microphone manufacturer. However, you should check to see, if you are afraid of voiding a warranty. I am no expert on Marshall Mics.
In most cases, the NOS, and especially NOS/JAN tubes, will be superior to modern day manufactured ones, in many cases markedly so, in terms of sound quality, noise floor, durability, etc. Some manufacturers actually use them as OEM tubes. Røde, for example, will put hand selected (high reject rates, of course) modern tubes in their less expensive tube mics (such as K2). These will usually sound fine. But in their higher end mics (such as Classic II) they will factory install an NOS tube. I think Soundelux also use them in their higher end makes.
You will probably find an even better sound from your new mic with an NOS tube, as long as the tube is a good one.
Best of luck.
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| Re: Marshal MXL V69 tube mic...Opinions anyone ??? [message #80016 is a reply to message #80010 ] |
Thu, 28 July 2005 11:07 |
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ricknroll
Messages: 361
Registered: April 2004
Location: PDX |
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| Han S. wrote on Thu, 28 July 2005 08:44 |
Well Rick that are quite some statements you make. I happen to own a Neumann M149 which is a better sounding mic than the M147.
I also have a brand new V69M and a V77S.
Besides that I do have two MD441's and you simply can't compare a LDC like the V69M to the MD441, a very different cat.
IMHO the V69M is a nice sounding toob mic, colored but nice and on some vocalists I prefer the V69 over the M149.
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Han,
I'm not claiming the M147 is the pinnacle of LDC mic technology. I certainly wouldn't have paid full price for a new one, but again, my point is I think the hype about the V69 is unwarranted - obviously some other people have a different opinion. And I think the 441 is a completely valid comparison - the 441 sounds much more balanced than the V69, and is less noisy to boot, but it has a sound that is much more condenser-like than most other dynamics I've used. Who knows...maybe the quality of the MXL and Studio Projects mics varies wildly, so I may just have a couple of bad MXLs (the V67 and the V69). But given the ones I do own and use, it's not just that the V69 is brighter, it's that it's a nasty sizzly sound and adds a slight (unfavorable) distortion to the signal. I've read other peoples' comments saying similar things, so there are other people out there with the same experiences I've had. It might be musically appropriate to use a sound like that in the right context, in the same way that crazy EQ or distortion can work on vocals depending on the song, arrangement, etc., but for a good clean sound, I won't be reaching for the V69 (and am probably going to sell it on eBay anyway).
-Rick
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| Re: Marshal MXL V69 tube mic...Opinions anyone ??? [message #80019 is a reply to message #80013 ] |
Thu, 28 July 2005 11:21 |
djwayne
Messages: 167
Registered: February 2005 |
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Thanks for the info on NOS tubes....but I have no desire to change out the tube, as the mic is working okay, and my experience has been, if it's not broke, don't fix it.
Until I hear differently from the manufacturer, I won't upgrade the tube...as I don't want to possibly void the warranty. I also don't want to get stuck with a broken mic.
So I'm planning on leaving it stock, and taking very good care of it. It's a microphone, not a football.
I'm not sold on the idea that "older is better". I know many people worship their vintage mics, but I look at them as a mechanical item, similar to a car, that is subject to wear and tear, and mechanical failures and breakdowns....there's just something about new metal, rubber, or plastic vrs old. I like new. Just a few years ago, tube mics were very expensive, and with modern technology, today I have one...
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| Re: Marshal MXL V69 tube mic...Opinions anyone ??? [message #80031 is a reply to message #80019 ] |
Thu, 28 July 2005 12:12 |
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| djwayne wrote on Thu, 28 July 2005 12:21 |
Thanks for the info on NOS tubes....but I have no desire to change out the tube, as the mic is working okay, and my experience has been, if it's not broke, don't fix it.
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How true. As I mentioned, if you're satisfied, that's good enough for you.
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Until I hear differently from the manufacturer, I won't upgrade the tube...as I don't want to possibly void the warranty. I also don't want to get stuck with a broken mic.
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Also a good idea. But with care, you should be able to change and re-change tubes quite easily without breaking anything.
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So I'm planning on leaving it stock, and taking very good care of it. It's a microphone, not a football.
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I wouldn't be too sure about that. You never know how good something will throw or kick until you've tried it.
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I'm not sold on the idea that "older is better". I know many people worship their vintage mics, but I look at them as a mechanical item, similar to a car, that is subject to wear and tear, and mechanical failures and breakdowns....there's just something about new metal, rubber, or plastic vrs old. I like new.
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I'm not always sold on "older is better" either. But please realise than an NOS tube is NEW old stock. From a reputable dealer, the tube would be brand new, never used or worn, still packed in the original box. But when these tubes were made new, the good ones were made in England, USA, Germany, Holland, etc. The factories were TOP NOTCH. Rejection rates were lower, quality was subjectively better. That's not an opinion, it's a fact. Today's tubes are almost all made in China, Russia, or somewhere else in the "Eastern Bloc." Many are made on the old, worn equipment, removed from previous Western manufacturers, which is ill maintained now. Rejection rates are higher, and quality is demonstrably lower.
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Just a few years ago, tube mics were very expensive, and with modern technology, today I have one...
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Yes, you do. Enjoy.
Best regards.
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| Re: Marshal MXL V69 tube mic...Opinions anyone ??? [message #80035 is a reply to message #80031 ] |
Thu, 28 July 2005 12:32 |
djwayne
Messages: 167
Registered: February 2005 |
Active Member |
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I do and will enjoy it...Here's a better quality sound sample of the V-69ME and Superlux for your comparison.
The V-69 on the left channel, the Superlux on the right. Both going thru my Tubessence Pre-amp....no effects or EQ added, just a little noise reduction.....
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| Re: Marshal MXL V69 tube mic...Opinions anyone ??? [message #80181 is a reply to message #74342 ] |
Fri, 29 July 2005 08:50 |
Jim Williams
Messages: 915
Registered: May 2005
Location: beautiful carlsbad, CA |
Gold Member |
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The Marshall guys brought over some of these with their other solid state mics for a going over. They were interested in whether upgrades would be useful in production models. The V-67/69 were poorly made and had a cheap look about them. The circuits are NOT pure tube but use a potted transistor module like some of the solid state models. This is a very harsh sounding circuit. No amount of component upgrades could overcome the degradation of this module.
As I was able to get some pretty good results with some other models, the tube ones are a disaster and should be avoided.
If the readers want to get a decent tube mic from the Chi-coms, the SE Electronics 5600 is quite good, but more than $300.
You do get what you pay for.
Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades
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| Re: Marshal MXL V69 tube mic...Opinions anyone ??? [message #80203 is a reply to message #80181 ] |
Fri, 29 July 2005 10:29 |
djwayne
Messages: 167
Registered: February 2005 |
Active Member |
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Well, the SE 5600 is quite a bit more at $695, that's more than double the price, not feasable for me at this time....so if it sounds a little bit better, is that little bit worth an extra $400 ?? That's a matter of opinion.
My budget allowed for $300, and I think I got a good buy at that price. I got a brand new mic, with new cables, new shock mount, case, got it right away with no hassles or problems. I was able to test it out BEFORE taking delivery, as I found a local store that actually had them in stock. Buying the mic new, I know the history of the mic. I know I didn't drop it, nobody slobbered all over it, nobody tinkered with the original tube or circuitry, and all that is worth something.
I was not in the market for a $500-$2,500+ mic.
Check the other forums for a guy who just got ripped off at E-Bay for $650 for a computer....that could have happened to me also, if I would have gone that route. I'd be out my money and have no mic.
The bottom line is how does it sound ???
Good enough for my needs at this time.
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