| Neve Style Transformers from Altran [message #205281] |
Mon, 11 December 2006 21:57  |
 rock777
Messages: 6
Registered: December 2006 |
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Fletcher, have you had a chance to check out the Neve style output transformers from Altran? I wired some to my console's direct outs and I was actually blown away. I was wondering what your thoughts were on them. I just purchased a set of Neve 33118's micpre/eq from a guy in CA and they were racked at Mercenary Audio. Whoever racked them at Mercenary put the power supply in an old ammunition case. They sound excellent. I picked up the transformers from Steven Smith at Altran. If you get a chance to check them out, let me know what you think about them. I am really pleased with the transformers that they sent me. Thanks.
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| Re: Neve Style Transformers from Altran [message #210905 is a reply to message #205541 ] |
Sun, 07 January 2007 07:26  |
Geoff_T
Messages: 392
Registered: May 2004
Location: Hollywood |
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| rock777 wrote on Tue, 12 December 2006 21:28 |
Fletcher, I didn't change the output transformers in the Neves. I wired these to my consoles direct outs and other preamps I have been building. I really didn't know what to expect. I plugged in a mic to test out the preamps/eq's the low end was huge and clean. It seemed like it cleaned up the phase shift, I noticed that the transformer didn't distort until +24db to 26db like the Carnhills are known to do. I also noticed the 12khz sounded very close to my Neves. I was talking to Steven Smith at Altran and he was telling me that Wade from Chandler was the guy who helped them engineer these. There were some original Marinair transformers used to study the type of copper used in the original windings and the quality of steel used in the laminations. If you get a chance wire some of these output transformers up and let me know what you think. They definitely have that N sound to my ears. You should probably try to wire these up to your pm 2000's direct outputs. I think you will be shocked at what you will hear. And I'd bet Steven at Altran would be more than willing to send you a sample to try.
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Hi Rock
This appears to be the same thread you started on GearSlutz.
In the interests of accuracy and eliminating any more urban myths, I must contest the statement you made above.
As in your other thread, you completely ignore the THD (total harmonic distortion) issue. I can assure you that any Neve style transformer, including the Carnhills supplied to cloners for aeons, can handle +26dBu across the audio band without significant THD issues and the difference between the original Marinairs and the samples that Carnhill supplied to Neve for their reissue 1073/1084 was the difference in THD between the Marinair and Carnhill at 20Hz and above +26dBu.
I believe the Marinairs were in the region of 4% and the Carnhills up around 10%. Note that there was significant distortion with both so the "no distortion" does not carry any weight in the truth department. You also need to state the load impedance on the transformer at this level.
I know that Altran are supplying transformers to several cloners and I wish them all the best. It's just that posts that gloss over or exaggerate performance issues make me grind my teeth at times!
In the real world, do these performance issues really matter? I'm doubtful and put it in the snake oil category. You'll never use those levels/frequencies and need a variety of transformers... the Carnhill, the Marinair, and the "other LO1166 manufacturer" (there's no point trying to contact them, by the way)... to make a judgement.
I'm sure most owners of clones are perfectly happy with their 10% thd at 20Hz @ +28dBu!
PS On the topic of slapping a transformer on your console outputs, as I explained in the Gearslutz thread, there's a little more to this than just fitting them and telling us how grand and low distortion they sound... the circuit may even be distorting but in a nice sort of way that you are linking to the overused N word.
For instance, without knowing the circuit details of the PM2000's output stage and any current limiting protection it may incorporate, there may be issues with it driving the relatively low impedance and highly reactive primary of the transformer. If the output stage has resistive short circuit protection, the transformer may not be happy being sourced from the higher impedance.
The transformer may work better with a shunt resistor across the primary but then this will increase the load on the amplifier output. Then there's the matter of the frequency compensation on the secondary to cope with the load (resistive and reactive) you put on the winding... the effects of which are reflected back to the primary.
Bottom line is that you can't be totally sure that both output stage and transformer are completely happy and working well without a little investigation with some seriously expensive test equipment... like the techs at Neve would have done before they were satisfied.
I'm sure that the Altran transformer has given your console some extra artifacts to the sound that it didn't have before. I'm also sure you like the sound it makes as you are going out of your way to tell everyone!
I would just be very careful of associating the sound you are getting with the N word and blending it with a Carnhills are crap, Altran are great, quazi advertisement.
Geoff Tanner
http://www.auroraaudio.net/main.shtml
http://www.grandmasterrecorders.com
http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0595093329/ref=sib_dp_pt/104 -6861899-0350336#reader-link
NB Please do not pm me if you want a fast response... please email me.
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| Re: Neve Style Transformers from Altran [message #212255 is a reply to message #205281 ] |
Thu, 11 January 2007 15:54 |
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Fletcher
Messages: 2775
Registered: April 2004
Location: München |
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Okely dokely... Rock777, you've had a chance to blow off some steam and lay down an indictment... if Geoff would like to respond then I would hope his response will be a bit more civil... and that any response you may have will not issue further indictment of his motives.
As far as transformers are concerned I would like to hear the Altran's... I've heard the St. Ives versions of the transformer formerly made by Marinair and they're different from the originals [even the Robin Porter specials in the new "N word" stuff]. FWIW, my assistant ownes a GTQ-2 and we have used it on session in my joint... it sounds very nice in every sense of the word, it is a very competent unit.
The religion of transformers is something individual to each user... things like transformers, 990 type op-amp replacements, etc. are extremely subjective... if the Altran's worked for you you're on the bonus plan... Geoff shouldn't knock them till he's tried them and I would hope that you [Rock777] would refrain from further indictment on the basis of profit motive [which may be real or implied but let's try for at least the outward appearance of civility here... if we don't, then I have to split the thread and move part of it to the Saloon for further warfare].
Fair enough?
CN Fletcher
TELEFUNKEN Elektroakustik
mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33
We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid
"Recording engineers are an arrogant bunch.
If you've spent most of your life with a few thousand dollars worth of musicians in the studio, making a decision every second and a half... and you and they are going to have to live with it for the rest of your lives, you'll get pretty arrogant too. It takes a certain amount of balls to do that... something around three"
Malcolm Chisholm
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