| Can UREI 813's sound good? [message #216054] |
Sat, 27 January 2007 16:06  |
 Lord Alvin
Messages: 18
Registered: July 2004
Location: Portland, OR |
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A friend of mine just bought an old studio that still has some UREI 813 monitors soffit mounted in the control room. They sound pretty bad. Is there anything that can be done to make these work? Is it worth the effort, or should he just replace them with something else?
Craig Alvin
Freelance Recording Engineer
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| Re: Can UREI 813's sound good? [message #216258 is a reply to message #216054 ] |
Sun, 28 January 2007 14:20  |
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I will agree with zmix.. We have done some installations with 813 that sounded really awesome.. Of course, they were totally rebuilt from crossovers to drivers, so the only really original thing was the cabinet.. Crossovers were hotrodded by John Klett from Technical Audio... basically replaced all caps and coils with better, more audio qaulity stuff than the originals and then upgraded drivers to whatever coax was the choice du-jour...
These type of compression driver based systems have a "sound".. it can get screachy at high levels in spite of the rebuild.. It's just the nature of the beast. but they do SOUND LOUD!!! and they can rock just fine. Since I've been involved for the past five years or so with building high end monitors that use high quality ribbon tweeters, I can't really go for that compression driver sound anymore.. but, the speakers can rock, can be (reasonably) full range and loud. The last thing you want out of a coax is full extension up to 18K.. it would just rip your head off!! They generally sound best when they start to gently roll off above 12K (3-5dB per octave).. This keeps them listenable and most don't have much output above 16K anyway (without eq)..
Francis Manzella - President, FM Design Ltd.
- Managing Director, Griffin Audio
fmdesign.com
griffinaudiousa.com
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| Re: Can UREI 813's sound good? [message #216419 is a reply to message #216054 ] |
Mon, 29 January 2007 08:07 |
TMI Audio
Messages: 9
Registered: January 2007 |
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Sounding "good" is a relative thing. Urei 813s can be an effective control room monitor. Some of their characteristics encourage you to balance tracks carefully. Others, prevent you from filling the midrange with spectrum overlapping synth / vocal pads. None of this has to do with sounding "good". It has more to do with modulation distortion, energy smear and sub overlap, none of which seem like a good idea, until you mix a record on exotics and find it unlistenable to the public.
I have been building "hot roded" UREI crossovers since 1984 when Secret Sound sent me a defective pair and I would not let them leave with the crap inside. (I think FM measured a pair at Grandpa Studios with good comment). With all the attention paid to Time Alignment in this design somehow they missed the Df of the electrolytic caps used.
Soffit mounting is a must. Subs must be on top. A modern amp with a damping factor over 80, slew rate over 20VuSec and power of at least 400 watts into 4 ohms. Bridged Bryston 4Bs are a good choice. Don't use a Mac with an output autoformer (2300, 2500 etc). Avoid 1/3 octave EQs, use a parametric if you must.
dbx's DRIVERACK offers better driver protection than the backup lamp off a '56 Chevy, real time alignment settings with EQ for each driver plus other improvements. Don't get me wrong, I like building the passive crossovers but I think dbx is just a software update or two from the better mousetrap.
Last, these are 20+ years old and studio work is hard on speakers. Get them reconed by a first class shop. Sometimes even the magnets need to be recharged.
If you maintain your monitors, there is no reason 813s cannot continue to provide useful service.
Tom Maguire
TMI Engineering
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| Re: Can UREI 813's sound good/ Peavey AMR vector [message #217110 is a reply to message #216721 ] |
Wed, 31 January 2007 11:09 |
TMI Audio
Messages: 9
Registered: January 2007 |
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Let me say this about that. I went to inspect a pre purchase AMR with a heavy Anti-Peavey prejudice and could not find a good reason to nix the sale. The AMR series represents value engineering in through hole era technology. It is not an 8078.
The EQ in the AMR is very similar to EQs currently in vogue in terms of shape and control-ear. I like different frequency options / overlap / Q and modify several channels to get usable drum, vocal and stereo pair channels. Overall, this is not my favorite EQ. There is only so much, short of a daughter board, that can be done.
There are issues everyone would like to have improved in the design. Newer parts make that relatively simple. Jack normals, AC line voltage sensitivity, jukebox current sources, summing amps, meter wiring and grounding are all areas that require attention. The mechanical assembly of the meter bridge to the channel and the way you have to fish the module out is a pain, but it is nothing compared to a Mackie where you may have to remove 100 knobs to change a switch.
My impression is that I don't mind working on it both under the hood and as an engineer. I like going to Clinton and running an 8078 date but more often than not, scarce production money is better spent on additional time on the Peavey at Musiclab.
Tom Maguire
TMI Engineering
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| Re: Can UREI 813's sound good? [message #218319 is a reply to message #216054 ] |
Sun, 04 February 2007 12:07 |
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I think given todays technology that the DBX driverack would make a great combination (re improvement) to the passive crossover on 813... We are currenlty using the DBX 4820 on our larger Griffin systems and feel it is a great sounding box... they just keep getting better and better...damn, soon these things will actuall sound great!! (I mean the DSP speaker management systems, not our loudspeakers!! LOL)...
Francis Manzella - President, FM Design Ltd.
- Managing Director, Griffin Audio
fmdesign.com
griffinaudiousa.com
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