| Saturn Sound's VF14 Replacement Tube- Anybody Used It? [message #172839] |
Fri, 21 July 2006 20:08  |
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 J.J. Blair
Messages: 9751
Registered: May 2004
Location: by the sea & sand |
Platinum Member |
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I found this very interesting and don't recall any discussions in here about it. Mind you, it's a replacement and not a recreation.
http://www.saturn-sound.com/products/replacement%20valve.htm
Does anybody know the guys at Saturn or have any experience with them?
I'm reading some of their information they've written, like the differences between the C12 and C24, and their opinions are well reflected enough that I'm curious to hear what they have come up with. I wonder if their replacement tubes sound better than some people's replacement capsules, for instance.
temporary webpage
They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.
"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher
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| Re: has anybody seen Saturn Sound's VF14 replacement? [message #334164 is a reply to message #331583 ] |
Thu, 17 April 2008 01:51  |
Saturn Sound
Messages: 1
Registered: April 2008
Location: England |
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I have only recently visited this excellent site, 16/04/08, to find a somewhat "Slanderous" message with respect to one of my products, namely that of the RV-14m valve (tube). I am totally aware of the "Sender" of the message, and find it difficult to believe that another manufacturer would take such lengths to "Discredit" a competitor's product in such manner.
Having sold many of these valves (tubes), I would like to point out the amount of positive feedback that I have received from many of my clients.
www.saturn-sound.com\products\replacement valve.htm to read customer feedback
Like any product, the occasional component can and will fail e.g. One RV-14m failed after only a few hours use, due to an open circuit heater (filament). A very rare fault indeed. However, this is the only reported problem that I am aware of and I have received no other negative feedback.
I am a strong believer in negative feedback from clients, as this leads to positive changes in design etc.
There is no secret as to what is inside the case of the RV-14m. Pictures on my web-site clearly show the inside of the RV-14m at various stages of design and construction:
www.saturn-sound.com\products\rv-14m_design_and_construction .htm.
The valve (tube) used in the RV-14m, might cosmetically appear very similar from the outside as a GE 407a, just like many other valves (tubes).
There is very little space to fit any other sized valve (tube) within the space of a VF14. Therefore the size of the glass envelope will be (small) out of necessity rather than design.
So to put the record straight ….. the valve (tube), used in the RV-14m, is not a GE 407a.
The valve (tube) proper, ML-1955, is a custom made unit.
"Pin-out" of the ML-1955 might well be the same as some other commercially available valves (tubes). This was a design feature, as the ML-1955 valve (tube) is used in other "Missing Link" products that demand flexibility in the choice of valve (tube) type(s) used.
Sincerely
Ashley C. Styles
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| Re: Saturn Sound's VF14 Replacement Tube- Anybody Used It? [message #334200 is a reply to message #172839 ] |
Thu, 17 April 2008 08:35 |
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Oliver Archut
Messages: 610
Registered: April 2004 |
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Hello Ashley,
Over the years there were several so called direct replacements for the VF14 that all claimed to be identical, most build upon the Western Electric 40x series, either the 20/40 V version of the 2C51 (407) or the 50mA/20V version of the EF95 (408).
Depending on the maker (WE, NE, GE, RCA, Ericson, Philips) some of them sound O.K. but have nothing to do with an VF14. Some other tubes that are favored, were the 5904 to 5908 group of tubes, but none of the above is really a direct replacement.
Passing signal does not mean it sounds good and there are a lot of people whom I meet that love the sound of the 5905, mostly in conjunction with a Thiersch reskin.
If one of the guys posting here really uses this forum to try to discredit you, I think Klaus would take care of that.
Regarding your claim of a custom made tube, I do understand to keep the real designation under wraps, in case it would sound the same as an VF14, but all tubes, whether of western or eastern origin are quite well documented and none has an ML designation. The Brits used CV for custom valves, the Americans STR; so what is up with your 'ML'? Are those ones custom made for you?
Oliver Archut
www.tab-funkenwerk.com
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| Re: has anybody seen Saturn Sound's VF14 replacement? [message #334259 is a reply to message #334164 ] |
Thu, 17 April 2008 11:30 |
ssltech
Messages: 1773
Registered: May 2004
Location: Florida (previously UK) |
Platinum Member |
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If Betnorm/ Norm Mc Cleary is a competing manufacturer, that should probably be stated.
I have asked Norm to chime in! K.H.
| MDM (maxdimario) wrote on Fri, 16 November 2007 21:36 |
I have the feeling that I have more experience in my little finger than you do in your whole body about audio electronics..
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| Re: has anybody seen Saturn Sound's VF14 replacement? [message #334602 is a reply to message #334587 ] |
Fri, 18 April 2008 07:27 |
rodabod
Messages: 168
Registered: December 2005
Location: London |
Active Member |
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Thanks for replying, Norm.
Can you tell us what you meant about receiving the item in a "bulk deal"? That just sounded a little strange.
Also, people here tend to try to describe why something sounds better or worse rather than just stating that it doesn't sound as good as it should, etc. Is it sonically lacking in any particular area in your opinion?
I think it would be nice if someone reputable could review one of these or possibly provide A/B samples to let us hear ourselves.
Roddy Bell
BBC / Siemens
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| Re: Saturn Sound's VF14 Replacement Tube- Anybody Used It? [message #334607 is a reply to message #172839 ] |
Fri, 18 April 2008 08:00 |
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Oliver Archut
Messages: 610
Registered: April 2004 |
Gold Member |
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A good beginning it to post the data sheet of the tube Ashley uses, does not tell anything about the sonic performance (like EF14 is identical in technical specs, but sounds different) but shows us at least if the technical specs are identical.
Regards,
Attachment: EF14.JPG
(Size: 667.80KB, Downloaded 297 time(s))
Oliver Archut
www.tab-funkenwerk.com
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| Re: has anybody seen Saturn Sound's VF14 replacement? [message #334660 is a reply to message #334602 ] |
Fri, 18 April 2008 11:07 |
Betnorm
Messages: 13
Registered: July 2007 |
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Approximately 12 months ago I purchased two U47 from an old Dutch recording studio. One was stated as working the other for parts. Surprise, surprise. When I opened the box not only the mics and accessories as described but an extra 10 VF14 tubes described as noisy or dead; among them were also a couple of the SaturnSound VF14 replacements.
These were in the mics. I had Gunter (Wagner) test all the tubes and he was able to rehabilatate 3 of the Tele tubes. One of the U47 was in good order but sounded quite harsh, this was with the replacement tube. We swapped it out for an original and
everything got better. The U47 for parts had a stuffed diaphram which I had re-skinned and then fitted another of the Tele tubes and now we had two very nice mics working to full specs.
For the fun of it we decided to cut up one of the replacement tubes, to see what was under the bonnet. Thats the story of the "Bulk Buy".
Regards Norm
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