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| Re: wire wound resistors? [message #336390 is a reply to message #336368 ] |
Thu, 24 April 2008 20:59   |
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Gold
Messages: 833
Registered: April 2004
Location: Brooklyn |
Gold Member |
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| J Hinson wrote on Thu, 24 April 2008 19:57 |
I NEVER use anything that is highly magnetic such as the cheapo junk (Xicon comes to mind) that is usually sold through the supply houses.
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Hmm. I'm building stuff with that exact cheapo junk. Luckily some of the channels are for audio that will never be heard. I'll try some Dale RN's since they're easy to get in the other channels and see if I can hear a difference. Caps are Wima and Nichicon Muse and decent polarized types already.
Paul Gold
www.saltmastering.com
On the silk road, looking for uranium.
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| Re: wire wound resistors? [message #336425 is a reply to message #336390 ] |
Thu, 24 April 2008 22:45 |
 J Hinson
Messages: 84
Registered: December 2007 |
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| Gold wrote on Thu, 24 April 2008 18:59 |
Hmm. I'm building stuff with that exact cheapo junk. Luckily some of the channels are for audio that will never be heard. I'll try some Dale RN's since they're easy to get in the other channels and see if I can hear a difference. Caps are Wima and Nichicon Muse and decent polarized types already.
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I'd be interested to hear your observations. In the scheme of things, I don't think resistors impart as much on the overall sound as some other components do but it sounds like you're using pretty decent stuff in the cap department already. Mostly I'm building up valve stuff or high current, highish voltage (80V) solid state stuff and I hear tremendous differences with the various resistors I try as anode or collector/drain loads for instance.
Here's a caveat regarding the Dale RNs though: I just had to order a bunch of RN60s myself and so I called Mouser. The paper and online catalogue shows a decent enough price for all values ($0.08 in small quantities) but the actual price when ordering has shot up to $0.24 apeice for some values and to $0.48 for others! This is more than I pay for MK3s or PRPs so I went with those in this particular instance.
Another caveat: I've had a couple of batches of Dale RNs that were magnetic. Not sure if this was an anomoly as I've had some since that weren't. It gets harder each year to find good through-hole components that aren't produced for the pick 'n' place machines.
Anyway, enough highjacking of JJs mic thread by me but, lastly and BTW, what are you building?
Possession is 9/10ths of the problem.
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| Re: wire wound resistors? [message #336693 is a reply to message #336449 ] |
Fri, 25 April 2008 21:51 |
J Hinson
Messages: 84
Registered: December 2007 |
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| Larrchild wrote on Thu, 24 April 2008 22:02 |
John, would you venture to say that the effects of stray inductance would be clearly audible in a condenser mic's grid shunt and capsule bias resistors?
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That's a good question Larry. I don't know the answer from experience (not a mic guy)
and I don't know that I would guess either without knowing, even approximately, the inductance of a 100M and up resistor. I don't have such a resistor on hand and I'd bet it'd be hard to measure accurately anyway.
I don't think the inductance of a resistor is linearly proportional to resistance but is approx. the square of R, yes/no? I guess if one knew the constuction methods used to make the resistor (compound/film, geometry, length, etc), then L could be figured out.
At 100M and up though, it could very easily have a filtering effect on audio.
BTW, tried to call ya a couple of times, not sure if I left a message on the right machine/voice mail.
J. W.O'B. H.
post sciptum edit: Just wanted to add that in my particular work I can't say that I've ever heard any filtering effect on audio frequencies from the inductance of a resistor. By the same token, I've had circuits erupt into oscillation from this inductance which will, naturally, have a different effect on the audio!
Possession is 9/10ths of the problem.
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| Re: wire wound resistors? [message #336699 is a reply to message #336561 ] |
Fri, 25 April 2008 22:07 |
J Hinson
Messages: 84
Registered: December 2007 |
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| J.J. Blair wrote on Fri, 25 April 2008 10:32 |
I have to say that in mics, I have heard a noticeable difference between metal foil resistors and CC resistors. I'm not sure than contradicts what John is saying, but it was enough to make me want to swap any metal foils out that are in the audio path of my other mics.
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Hey JJ. No I don't think it contradicts what I was saying. The fact that there is a difference and you can hear these differences was really the point of my post I guess.
I really like what carbon compositions do when used in certain spots myself too. Just that it'd been my experience that the non-linearities of CCs (pleasing to the ear non-linearities might I add) were more evident when large voltage drops and current were involved.
So what metal foils where in the mics before (Vishay, Caddock?) and what carbon comps did you end up liking and throwing in?
J.H.
Possession is 9/10ths of the problem.
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| Re: wire wound resistors? [message #336929 is a reply to message #336699 ] |
Sat, 26 April 2008 21:26 |
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J.J. Blair
Messages: 10046
Registered: May 2004
Location: by the sea & sand |
Diamond Member |
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John, I don't know the manufacturer of these (pictured below). It's the ubiquitous blue metal foil ones. I replaced them with a combination of Xicon and Ohmites, depending on what was available.
Believe it or not, below are the passive components you will find inside a mic that retails for $10,000. You would think that somebody charging that much would "build it to a standard," so to speak.
Nice electrolytic cap in your $10,000 mic, too. Just like they originals! Funny, next to this pic on their website, they say: "We avoid cutting corners, in favor of recreating each piece of the classic design." So, I guess not spending the extra cost for carbon comp resistors and wet tantalum caps doesn't count as "cutting corners."
Sorry to digress, but this shit just irks me. I know Dave had to fix some crappy workmanship from this same company a couple months ago, so I'm sure this falls on sympathetic ears.
BTW, what do you guys think of those blue Ohmite square deals as grid shunt resistors? I know some people like them, for their random scattering effect. You can get those all the way up to 1 GΩ. Do you suppose that for capsule bias resistors or grind shunts, those would sound as good as the Welwyns or the Caddocks?
On a related note, I'm going to try the Vishay/Dale wirewound 100kΩ in the appropriate position on a U47. It's tied to the transformer coupling cap, so if it does have an audible effect, you would think that would be a location where you would hear it.
temporary webpage
They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.
"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher
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| Re: wire wound resistors? [message #337026 is a reply to message #337012 ] |
Sun, 27 April 2008 13:54 |
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J.J. Blair
Messages: 10046
Registered: May 2004
Location: by the sea & sand |
Diamond Member |
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I fixed it, so you should be able to se it now. Put it twice for good measure.
I will say that said company complained that the solder blob was done by an outside tech and not in house, and we have no way of verifying the authenticity of the photo, so we'll never know. However, I have caught them in several outright lies and deceptions, so it is hard to give them the benefit of the doubt. I would post the proof of these things, to maybe save people from getting scammed the way this one friend did, but it's so not worth the headache with those guys, for me.
temporary webpage
They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.
"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher
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| Re: wire wound resistors? [message #337027 is a reply to message #337012 ] |
Sun, 27 April 2008 13:57 |
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J.J. Blair
Messages: 10046
Registered: May 2004
Location: by the sea & sand |
Diamond Member |
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| bigaudioblowhard wrote on Sun, 27 April 2008 10:26 |
| J.J. Blair wrote on Fri, 25 April 2008 11:32 |
I have to say that in mics, I have heard a noticeable difference between metal foil resistors and CC resistors. I'm not sure than contradicts what John is saying, but it was enough to make me want to swap any metal foils out that are in the audio path of my other mics.
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The techs at Capitol fixed a C37A by replacing the vintage Suzuki wirewound with a metal foil. I didn't hear it but they claimed it sounded noticeably bad. They found suitable WW replacements, which worked much better.
bab
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Interestingly, I experimented with replacing the 50 year old oil filled coupling caps in my C37A (which still held their exact capacitance value!) with high quality PP films, and wound up going back to the old ones, as I liked their sound better. The coloration did something wonderful. Funny how that works out.
temporary webpage
They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.
"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher
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