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monitor placement advice [message #328589]

Fri, 28 March 2008 12:45

lostinthewires is currently offline

lostinthewires
Messages: 13
Registered: January 2008
Location: ireland

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Hi ,

I'm looking for suggestions for the placement of my Alesis m1 mk2 monitors.

My living/studio room is L 23' W 15' H 8' ; has rockwool bale basstraps in each corner and I have made six 2'x4' rfz absorbers.(4" rockwool)

The Alesis manual suggests around 3' per side equilateral triangle placement but I was wondering if I should go wider since I have a bit more space.

Right now they are at 3' and 38% back from front wall, and having read Ethan's piece are off the room center point. L is 4 1/3' from left wall and R is 5 1/2' from right wall.

I'm waiting until I finalize the monitor placement to install the rfz absorbers.

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Re: monitor placement advice [message #328629 is a reply to message #328589 ]

Fri, 28 March 2008 14:05

Ethan Winer is currently offline

Ethan Winer
Messages: 454
Registered: April 2004
Location: New Milford, CT USA

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The only way to know where is best is to measure the LF response at high resolution as you try different places. If you use ETF or similar software, you can sweep continuously as you move the speakers around. Bribe a few friends with some beers to come by and help you and it will go even faster. Or slower. Very Happy

Very Happy

--Ethan

www.realtraps.com
The acoustic treatment experts
---------------------
Amazing Telecaster guitar video

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Re: monitor placement advice [message #328798 is a reply to message #328589 ]

Sat, 29 March 2008 07:43

gullfo is currently offline

gullfo
Messages: 125
Registered: February 2005
Location: Old Tappan, NJ USA

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you could probably go 6' on each leg of the triangle but pay attention to the strength of the phantom channel to ensure its consistent with the sides. move them in (as well as closer) if the center is "thin".

Glenn Stanton
www.runnel.com/

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Re: monitor placement advice [message #328857 is a reply to message #328589 ]

Sat, 29 March 2008 11:33

Barkley McKay is currently offline

Barkley McKay
Messages: 372
Registered: January 2005
Location: Leeds, England

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What is the optimum distance behind the speaker? I have Genelec 1030's which are ported from the front. I have gone for a LEDE type studio as the room is 14ft by 11 ft (but 13 into the aclove). I built 6 inch trapping behind the monitors into the alcove along with corner bass traps and two ceiling chunks above and into the alcove.

here is the plan:

index.php/fa/8333/0/

index.php/fa/8333/0/

I think the room sounds pretty good, but have always wondered about the wall behind and speaker relationship.

many thanks for any input

Barkley

Attachment: Studio Plan.jpg
(Size: 21.67KB, Downloaded 289 time(s))

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Re: monitor placement advice [message #328858 is a reply to message #328589 ]

Sat, 29 March 2008 11:35

Barkley McKay is currently offline

Barkley McKay
Messages: 372
Registered: January 2005
Location: Leeds, England

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through the door photo:

index.php/fa/8334/0/

index.php/fa/8334/0/

Attachment: Studio 1.jpg
(Size: 65.07KB, Downloaded 286 time(s))

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Re: monitor placement advice [message #328859 is a reply to message #328589 ]

Sat, 29 March 2008 11:37

Barkley McKay is currently offline

Barkley McKay
Messages: 372
Registered: January 2005
Location: Leeds, England

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Alcove close-up:

index.php/fa/8335/0/

index.php/fa/8335/0/

Attachment: Studio2.jpg
(Size: 64.50KB, Downloaded 281 time(s))

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Re: monitor placement advice [message #328867 is a reply to message #328589 ]

Sat, 29 March 2008 12:19

lostinthewires is currently offline

lostinthewires
Messages: 13
Registered: January 2008
Location: ireland

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Thanks for your replies.

How far from the ceiling do you think I should hang the two 2'x4' 4" rockwool absorbers?

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Re: monitor placement advice [message #329091 is a reply to message #328857 ]

Sun, 30 March 2008 10:51

Ethan Winer is currently offline

Ethan Winer
Messages: 454
Registered: April 2004
Location: New Milford, CT USA

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Barkley McKay wrote on Sat, 29 March 2008 12:33

What is the optimum distance behind the speaker?

Same answer as before: The only way to know where is best is to measure the LF response at high resolution as you try different places.

--Ethan

www.realtraps.com
The acoustic treatment experts
---------------------
Amazing Telecaster guitar video

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Re: monitor placement advice [message #329127 is a reply to message #328589 ]

Sun, 30 March 2008 13:07

gullfo is currently offline

gullfo
Messages: 125
Registered: February 2005
Location: Old Tappan, NJ USA

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http://www.genelecusa.com/documents/qsg/QS2-way.pdf

this might help. Genelec has a number of excellent manuals on how to optimally set up their equipment. and do the measurements...

Glenn Stanton
www.runnel.com/

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Re: monitor placement advice [message #329136 is a reply to message #329127 ]

Sun, 30 March 2008 13:27

Barkley McKay is currently offline

Barkley McKay
Messages: 372
Registered: January 2005
Location: Leeds, England

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Thanks for the link. I actually have that document as it came with the monitors. I believe its aimed for non-treated rooms though with respect for using the 'tilts' etc. In my case I have some trapping behind.
I guess I was looking for info regarding the response behind the speaker as the frequency wavelength starts to exceed that of the dimensions of the speaker, and of the more omni-directional response as frequency lowers. Is it wise to keep it within a certain distance (back wall to front cabinet) etc.

As Ethan suggested, I think I am in the tweaking realm now with experimenting. I'll get some beers in!

Barkley

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Re: monitor placement advice [message #330169 is a reply to message #328589 ]

Thu, 03 April 2008 04:38

gullfo is currently offline

gullfo
Messages: 125
Registered: February 2005
Location: Old Tappan, NJ USA

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i'd opt for keeping the monitors closer to the wall to ensure that whatever frequency range is wrapping has a long enough 1/2 wavelength, that the possibility of cancellation (from the front wall) at your mix position is lower. given you have angled boundary walls (alcove) you might find some low frequency anomalies so i'd beef up whatever trapping you have between the two speakers.

Glenn Stanton
www.runnel.com/

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Re: monitor placement advice [message #330175 is a reply to message #330169 ]

Thu, 03 April 2008 06:12

Barkley McKay is currently offline

Barkley McKay
Messages: 372
Registered: January 2005
Location: Leeds, England

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Thanks for the suggestions.
I have at present nearly 8 inches (after re-measuring!) of absorbtion behind, and there is definitely a better response with the speakers, bass wise, now that I have them backed up close but there seems to be a little lift in the upper bass/low mid range now.
Do you think it would be prudent to make a hanging 'cloud' bass trap above the alcove, and is it possible that I am getting ceiling to floor anomolies now?
The speakers are definitely beyond the half way point on the vertical axis. At present I do have two ceiling corner traps there (see 1st photo) but I do cherish the little window for natural daylight!

Barkley

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Re: monitor placement advice [message #330626 is a reply to message #328589 ]

Fri, 04 April 2008 12:51

gullfo is currently offline

gullfo
Messages: 125
Registered: February 2005
Location: Old Tappan, NJ USA

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you should have a cloud overhead regardless but it doesn't have to block the window either...

Glenn Stanton
www.runnel.com/

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Re: monitor placement advice [message #330630 is a reply to message #330626 ]

Fri, 04 April 2008 12:59

Barkley McKay is currently offline

Barkley McKay
Messages: 372
Registered: January 2005
Location: Leeds, England

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I thought as much, time to get the saw out!

At the moment there are just auralex foam panels on the ceiling above the console for the early reflections.

The neighborhood cats sometimes visit through the window.

Again, thank you for your advice, much appreciated.

Barkley

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Re: monitor placement advice [message #331259 is a reply to message #328589 ]

Mon, 07 April 2008 06:56

Ian Visible is currently offline

Ian Visible
Messages: 82
Registered: November 2005
Location: Sussex, UK

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Cats make excellent absorbers but you will need to apply a fire retardent of some description as they also make excellent firelighters.

Sheep are even better.

Josh

"An infinite swarm of haircuts and anuses, that's humankind for you." - Charlie Brooker, 2008.

http://songramp.com/Josh

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Re: monitor placement advice [message #337058 is a reply to message #330175 ]

Sun, 27 April 2008 15:48

franman is currently offline

franman
Messages: 411
Registered: August 2006
Location: Westchester County, NY

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Barkley McKay wrote on Thu, 03 April 2008 07:12

Thanks for the suggestions.
I have at present nearly 8 inches (after re-measuring!) of absorbtion behind, and there is definitely a better response with the speakers, bass wise, now that I have them backed up close but there seems to be a little lift in the upper bass/low mid range now.
Do you think it would be prudent to make a hanging 'cloud' bass trap above the alcove, and is it possible that I am getting ceiling to floor anomolies now?
The speakers are definitely beyond the half way point on the vertical axis. At present I do have two ceiling corner traps there (see 1st photo) but I do cherish the little window for natural daylight!

Barkley

We do a fair amount of smaller rooms with trapped front ends and almost always find that the best SPIR is by having the speaker backed up against the trapping... I imagine this keeps the wavelength for the boundary cancellation as short as possible, thus getting the fundamental frequency as high as possible.. this may explain some of the 'lift in the upper bass, lower mid range area'... almost impossible to get everything to work in very small rooms. There is just no way to avoid some of the boundary interference issues....

Francis Manzella - President, FM Design Ltd.
- Managing Director, Griffin Audio
fmdesign.com
griffinaudiousa.com

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