| Need some help with syncing video: questions. [message #337886] |
Wed, 30 April 2008 12:06  |
 bushwick
Messages: 493
Registered: January 2005
Location: brooklyn, ny |
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Hi-
I have a movie score session booked for the end of the month that needs to have two monitors hooked up in the studio for musicians people to watch as the music goes down. Elementary for those of you who already do this work. I am not yet set up to do this and have some questions for those who have already been through this.
1) Is it necessary to provide special HD-DV lines? I guess that would be some kind of special coax or something.
2) Is length of cable an issue?
3) Are there recommended converter boxes for handling all video outputs and to more than one output.
4) Can I utilize some of XLR ties lines into the live room with standard shielded mulit-pair? Would this cause interference with the other audio lines coming back into the control room.
I have a split level design and it was not built with this application in mind. The only way to run new cabling is to drill a new hole in the floor and do some sheet rock work. Not ideal at all but doable if I have to. Very deepest thanks for anyone that can shed some light on this.
Best,
joshua
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| Re: Need some help with syncing video: questions. [message #337975 is a reply to message #337886 ] |
Wed, 30 April 2008 15:29  |
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Will you be showing Quicktime from Protools, or is the video from a hardware source?
I'll try to get our tech wiz Osie to answer you (smpte24); we have done the Quicktime vid mirror mon thing many times.
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| Re: Need some help with syncing video: questions. [message #337981 is a reply to message #337886 ] |
Wed, 30 April 2008 15:38 |
amorris
Messages: 454
Registered: June 2004
Location: florida |
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Pro Tools? Ugly.We do the quicktime thing but use digi V10 which is ugly. If you can, sync the PT to SMPTE, and use a video specific format. but hey Im old school. very old school.
Video wont like XLR. sheilding is important for itself, let alone any audio next to it. coax only.
DVI, forget about it. hard to make cables with the right cable.
what is the video on now? where is final product going? what do they want it on?
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| Re: Need some help with syncing video: questions. [message #338150 is a reply to message #337886 ] |
Thu, 01 May 2008 08:11 |
bushwick
Messages: 493
Registered: January 2005
Location: brooklyn, ny |
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Sincerest thanks for all of these responses. Excellent, excellent, excellent help.
To answer:
The movie will have been exported out of final cut pro and I've been told it will then exist as a "DV Codec Quicktime" file or "DVC Pro". In essence, yes a quicktime file. The scorer said he has a canopus box that will take firewire input and put out video. Ultimately, I would like to have something here so I am completely set up to do this again and not have to rely on others to bring in equipment.
I have been asked to have a large"ish" monitor in the live room, one in the control room, and if possible, to also connect the flat screen in my back room - which doubles as a lounge - for added comfort.
The wireless option is very attractive as it would mean the least labor and probably not much expense. However, if someone had something in HD, I guess that would be a problem. I can cross that bridge down the road.
The audio is going to be recorded with PT.
To sum up remaining thoughts:
- I imagine any style tv or monitor these days will suffice. Am I wrong here? And is it possible to send HD signals through an RGB amplifier with reduced quality or will the aspect ratio be the problem?
- Will start looking for a wireless amplifier. Any recommendations? I will try markertek first. I imagine I can buy as many receivers as I need for each monitor.
- Canopus box. Not sure yet the details on this. Will find out today but if this is familiar to some and sounds like not the best option for my needs. I'd appreciate if you could jot a line here.
Again, thank you very, very much to everyone for the help.
joshua
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| Re: Need some help with syncing video: questions. [message #338155 is a reply to message #338150 ] |
Thu, 01 May 2008 09:06 |
Adam Miller
Messages: 160
Registered: May 2005
Location: London |
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A canopus box is the standard thing to bolt onto ProTools that allow you spit out quicktime format video to external screens. The other thing you might possibly encounter is a video in an Avid format, in which case you'd need an Avid Mojo box to bring it to the outside world. I have no idea how much either of these cost, but if you're only doing this kind of thing infrequently it would make much more sense to hire in these boxes. In any case, round these parts quicktime encoded video files seem much more common that Avid ones.
Anything HD related should be the last thing on your mind- the chances are that the QT movie you'll have in the PT session will be a compressed version of the unconformed video straight from the edit. Because video is so processing intensive, offline editors work with a version of the picture that might be 10:1 or 15:1 digitally compressed anyway- so basically what you watch will look like some degree of shit- sometimes no better than streaming video over the net. Therefore, no need to worry about anything HD!
I'm very far from being an expert on video formats and distribution, but sending video around the place wirelessly sounds like a whole world of pain... Take into account the sync issues that wireless video might have- I'll bet there are some fairly major ones.
Lag is also an issue with flatscreens- so beware. If you know the video latency of your screen, you can compensate for it in ProTools, but obviously one level of compensation will affect all the screens you're using. Good old fashioned CRTs don't have this problem, but they do kick out a nice 15k whine- so that's another thing to consider!
The easiest way to hook up all these screens is to keep it strictly analogue- take the phono output from the canopus box into a video distribution amp, then output from there to your screens using 75 ohm BNC cables. You can send video over AES xlr ties if you have any of these installed- we've got some little Neutrik impedance transformers that convert from 75 ohm to 110 ohm to do this. No idea what the maximum cable length is for this, but we lay down leads that are easily 50 feet + with no problems.
Cheers,
Adam
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| Re: Need some help with syncing video: questions. [message #338158 is a reply to message #338150 ] |
Thu, 01 May 2008 09:17 |
Peter Beckmann
Messages: 149
Registered: November 2005
Location: London UK |
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| bushwick wrote on Thu, 01 May 2008 14:11 |
The movie will have been exported out of final cut pro and I've been told it will then exist as a "DV Codec Quicktime" file or "DVC Pro".
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This is good. Apple DV codec puts no load on the CPU of your host computer.
It is also the correct format for Protools to use with the Canopus box.
Just plug the Canopus in, and when you open the movie in PT select "play Quicktime movie out of firewire" in options.
Canopus will output Composite and/or S-VHS. Just plug this into a nice old fashioned CRT TV.
Things to think about:
1. CRT monitor/tv has the least lag to keep picture and audio in sync. So it's the simplest option. You will still need to adjust the offset between video and audio for a tight sync. There is a box called Syncheck which can help you adjust the video offset in PT.
FYI: on my system [Dual 2.7GHz G5 HD3 with Canopus ADVC 110 and CRT monitor] I set it to 21 quarter frames in PT.
2. You might need a video distribution box to send the Canopus output to all those destinations
3. Stating the obvious, but make sure you have the frame rate/timebase the same in your session as is correct for the video file.
4. Stating the obvious again. Work at 48KHz. Thats what video people use and expect.
5. Check the quick time movie you get given in Quicktime player. Open the movie inspector window to check the CODEC and timecodes match what you were told.
6. Do you need the ruff dialogue/sync sound/fx track from the video editor? This can be included in the Quicktime movie they give you and you can import it into PT along with the movie. Helps the director get a feel for how it is all working in context. Also good for identifying any sync issues you may have with your video setup.
7. Make sure the movie has burnt in timecode for everyone to read if necessary. Again, good to reassure yourself everything is in sync.
8. I plug the Canopus box into the firewire port on the front of my G5. This keeps it off the same bus as the audio drive.
9. VERY IMPORTANT. Run the video from a different drive than the audio. Ideally do audio on a separate SATA drive inside your Mac and run video off a separate 800 FW drive
10. Don't forget to have fun!
Good Luck
PB
Peter Beckmann
Technologyworks
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| Re: Need some help with syncing video: questions. [message #338237 is a reply to message #337886 ] |
Thu, 01 May 2008 13:03 |
drknob
Messages: 39
Registered: February 2005
Location: Montreal, QC |
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I agree with Mr. Beckman's excellent summary. Check the Pro Tools manual. IIRC, 21 quarter frame offset is that recommended by Digi. The point about CRTs is a good one - less delay. If you can find actual video monitors with composite inputs and a loop through, you can daisy chain a few. Don't forget to use 75 ohm termination on the last one in the chain. I have used Canopus DVC100 series on hundreds of sessions. It works well - as long as the original capture is correct!
Harold Kilianski
CIRMMT, McGill University
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| Re: Need some help with syncing video: questions. [message #338410 is a reply to message #338158 ] |
Thu, 01 May 2008 23:12 |
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minister
Messages: 1511
Registered: September 2005 |
Platinum Member |
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I think Mr. Beckman outlined it very well or your situation.
The Canopus is fine. You may occasionally notice that the sync gets a little swimmy, but it will be fine for music recording.
You will need a Video D/A.
You will not be able to do HD with this, however. Which is fine. An HD output to DV NTSC looks pretty decent through the can-o-puss. (yes, i realize in a "music forum" i should say canibus).
ANY NTSC that accepts Composite or S-Video in will do.
Another thing to add -- it will look no so good on a nice HD plasma.... the Composite feed into a Plasma will be blech, but watchable. If you mix kinds of monitors you will never have them on complete lip sync. I suggest nice CRT's.
tom hambleton C.A.S.
minister of fancy noises
ministry of fancy noises
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