Home » R/E/P » Whatever Works » Steely Dan........
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| Re: Steely Dan........ [message #339710 is a reply to message #339644 ] |
Thu, 08 May 2008 00:13   |
mdbeh
Messages: 81
Registered: April 2004 |
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| Robert Shelton wrote on Wed, 07 May 2008 17:47 |
No accounting for tastes, BUT...
My issue with a lot of Steely Dan bashers is the implication that they're not GOOD. Which is, I'm sorry, ridiculous, and bordering on intellectual dishonesty. If you don't like the groove in FM, if that sax solo in Deacon Blues doesn't do it for you, or if you just don't like their sound or object to their recording philosophy on general principle, that's all fine.
But to suggest that these two cats don't have writing chops... well, show me what you've got that's better. All I'm sayin'.
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I don't care for Steely Dan, though I'm certainly not bothered by people who do. What does bug me a bit is the attitude above, which seems pretty common among SD and/or prog fans.
It's always some variation on, "Sure, you can criticize then for [x], but you have to give them credit for..."
But music is an inherently subjective experience. Of course there's craft involved, but it's just a means to an end.
And if I think that end is smarmy, sterile, self-impressed, dilettantish, then no... I don't think it's GOOD, regardless of the skill it took to put together.
Brian Harper
Chicago, IL
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| Re: Steely Dan........ [message #339753 is a reply to message #339616 ] |
Thu, 08 May 2008 08:47 |
 Kendrix
Messages: 697
Registered: April 2004 |
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FWIW I'm a SD fan.
I agree with JJ's comments about the song writing.
I find the quirky/sardonic/sarcastic/ lyrics deliverd by Fagans very unique voice to be very entertaining. Thare are almost no total clunkers in their entire catalog.
They are masters of arrangement in the sense that they manage to use a number of interesting sounds that pop-through in small bits and rarely take up much space. In that way they maximize the sonic impact and never have anything stepping on anything else. The result is a very complex arrangement that sounds deceptively simple and uncluttered. On that point they are about as good as it gets.
Same goes for the quality of the tracks and the mix. They are generally impecccable
However, i agree that, especially from Gaucho onward, the energy level in the recordings leaves something to be desired.
Live i find that is much less of an issue. Live I am always stunned by the level of professionalism... and what may sound a bit lethargic on record can take on a majectic character.
Based on feedback Ive gotten from aquantances of current band members Donald and Walter are some very quirky dudes.
One of the fan sites calls Donald "borderline autistic".
Whataever... it clear that they are in it for the "art" of it all. Personally, Im glad they found their second wind for touring in the past few years.
Ken Favata
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| Re: Steely Dan........ [message #339771 is a reply to message #339685 ] |
Thu, 08 May 2008 10:16 |
Dave @ D D
Messages: 423
Registered: May 2004
Location: Toronto |
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| McAllister wrote on Wed, 07 May 2008 22:14 |
.....
But it seems to me they started refining things too much. They were this rock (well, rock-ish) band at the beginning, then they refined their sound. Made it more subtle, more simmer. Chuck Rainey, Steve Gadd. Then.... I don't know, they refined it too much, and all the heat went out of it. "Aja" leaves me cold, though there are things from a technical POV I appreciate.
But I want to LOVE the music I listen to, not appreciate it on a technical basis.
M
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I guess, coming from a classical background -as I do - I just don't get that. I never have.
It's somwhat like a backlash against being too refined - too good - too polished. Why is that ? In the classical world, or jazz, that would be absurd.
and the Idol thing reveals a whole broadway/lounge thing goin' on there. Steely Dan has some serious attitude...any major dude will tell you.
Dave T.
D&D Music
www.d-dmusic.com
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| Re: Steely Dan........ [message #339778 is a reply to message #339758 ] |
Thu, 08 May 2008 10:42 |
mikey
Messages: 95
Registered: October 2005
Location: L.A. |
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| Kris wrote on Thu, 08 May 2008 15:18 |
| Kendrix wrote on Thu, 08 May 2008 09:47 |
Personally, Im glad they found their second wind for touring in the past few years.
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Incredible show. Their backup singers alone are worth the price of admission.
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yea party with the backup singers...you can't argue with that!!!
MIKEY
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| Re: Steely Dan........ [message #339782 is a reply to message #339616 ] |
Thu, 08 May 2008 10:54 |
overlordofanalog
Messages: 5
Registered: February 2008 |
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I just had to listen to them all through my songwriting class.
Worst hour and a half of my life.
Mike
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| Re: Steely Dan........ [message #339784 is a reply to message #339616 ] |
Thu, 08 May 2008 10:57 |
PRobb
Messages: 1117
Registered: May 2004
Location: New York City |
Platinum Member |
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I try to make a distinction between "like" and "good". I'm not a big Elton John fan. I think he does what he does very well, I'm just not nuts about what he does.
I really don't think it's possible to deny that SD do what they do extraordinarily well. Whether or not you like what they do is a different question.
Full disclosure- I like SD. "Royal Scam" is probably my fave. Unless it's Aja. Or maybe Countdown. Not Gaucho.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
-Edmund Burke
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| Re: Steely Dan........ [message #339788 is a reply to message #339645 ] |
Thu, 08 May 2008 11:19 |
C.Cash
Messages: 567
Registered: September 2007
Location: Bahamas |
Gold Member |
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| littlehat wrote on Wed, 07 May 2008 17:52 |
I will never ask anyone else what they think of music I like.
Why in the world would I care?
Music I enjoy speaks to me, if you don't get it... that's fine. I hope you've found music you love, whether I like it or not.
I don't object to soliciting advice on music to try, I ask people I think have interesting taste to turn me on to new (or old) music I might like.
I don't listen to Steely Dan for pleasure... you shouldn't care at all.
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Dont get me wrong, I dont care who likes what but its very interesting to hear opinions from you guys on this band.
There have been a few bands that have broken up and came back 20 years later and put out an album, most of the time they have sucked imo. When I heard "Two against Nature" was out I figured it was going to be the same thing, I was wrong, it as like they had never stopped. I loved it.
" Yellow is the new Red " T.Manning
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| Re: Steely Dan........ [message #339813 is a reply to message #339700 ] |
Thu, 08 May 2008 12:21 |
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Berolzheimer
Messages: 652
Registered: April 2007
Location: L.A. |
Gold Member |
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I generally like them a lot, the writing, arranging & playing. I do feel that the production got a little too careful at times, losing some feel & energy. I blame Wendel.
"We have also sound-houses, where we practise and demon- strate all sounds and their generation....
Divers instruments of music likewise to you unknown, some sweeter than any you have; with bells and rings that are dainty and sweet. We represent small sounds as great and deep, likewise great sounds extenuate and sharp; we make divers tremblings and warblings of sounds, which in their original are entire. We represent and imitate all articulate sounds and letters, and the voices and notes of beasts and birds. We have certain helps which, set to the ear, do further the hearing greatly; we have also divers strange and artificial echoes, reflecting the voice many times, and, as it were, tossing it; and some that give back the voice louder than it came, some shriller and some deeper, some rendering the voice, differing in the letters or articulate sound from that they receive. We have all means to convey sounds in trunks and pipes, in strange lines and distances."--Francis Bacon, 1626
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| Re: Steely Dan........ [message #339865 is a reply to message #339616 ] |
Thu, 08 May 2008 16:06 |
Blas
Messages: 163
Registered: July 2006
Location: St. Louis, Mo. |
Active Member |
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Time out of Mind, just killer or the story behind 'Hey Nineteen' in itself is interesting (as told by Elliot Scheiner). Plus great Taxicab Confession bit on later DVD, very funny. Yeah, I like 'em alot.
Blas
Conjecture and theory are all well and good...but the proof comes out of the speakers - Fletcher
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| Re: Steely Dan........ [message #339879 is a reply to message #339771 ] |
Thu, 08 May 2008 17:23 |
Jim Frazier
Messages: 268
Registered: April 2004
Location: Nashville |
Active Member |
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| Dave @ D&D wrote on Thu, 08 May 2008 10:16 |
| McAllister wrote on Wed, 07 May 2008 22:14 |
.....
But it seems to me they started refining things too much. They were this rock (well, rock-ish) band at the beginning, then they refined their sound. Made it more subtle, more simmer. Chuck Rainey, Steve Gadd. Then.... I don't know, they refined it too much, and all the heat went out of it. "Aja" leaves me cold, though there are things from a technical POV I appreciate.
But I want to LOVE the music I listen to, not appreciate it on a technical basis.
M
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I guess, coming from a classical background -as I do - I just don't get that. I never have.
It's somwhat like a backlash against being too refined - too good - too polished. Why is that ? In the classical world, or jazz, that would be absurd.
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I think it's because Steely Dan is considered by some (not me, but some) as a "rock" band,(and I use that term VERY loosely)... rock records, the great ones anyway, have a sort of reckless abandon to them. This creates the energy, the tension... if it's too polished, regardless of the musicianship, it lacks sincerity... or it may appear that way.
That's my spin on it anyway...
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