Home » R/E/P » Whatever Works » oh no, not another FREE album...
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| Re: oh no, not another FREE album... [message #339880 is a reply to message #339873 ] |
Thu, 08 May 2008 17:24   |
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 mgod
Messages: 2257
Registered: January 2007
Location: L.A. |
Platinum Member |
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If you had as much money as Paul McCuteone and next to nobody was buying your record, what would you do?
But if those figures are accurate, that's pretty depressing, given how many fans the man still has.
DS
"As a man who has devoted his whole life to the most clear-headed science, to the study of matter, I can tell you as a result of my research about the atoms this much: There is no matter as such! All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particles of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together . . . We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent Mind. This Mind is the matrix of all matter."
- Nobel Prize-winning physicist Max Planck, from a speech he delivered in Florence, Italy in 1944, entitled "Das Wesen der Materie" (The Character of Matter)
"My goal is simple. It is a complete understanding of the universe, why it is as it is and why it exists at all." - Stephen Hawking
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| Re: oh no, not another FREE album... [message #339892 is a reply to message #339880 ] |
Thu, 08 May 2008 18:30 |
rnicklaus
Messages: 3288
Registered: May 2004
Location: Left Coast |
Platinum Member |
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the 100K sales number is for the UK only. It has scanned over 500K in the US.
R.N.
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| Re: oh no, not another FREE album... [message #339897 is a reply to message #339873 ] |
Thu, 08 May 2008 18:45 |
RMoore
Messages: 3064
Registered: May 2004
Location: Netherlands (ex-Vancouver... |
Platinum Member |
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The tactic worked well for Prince - remember he gave away his album for free with one of the UK dailies? Everyone thought he was insane, but he had the last laugh when he had something like 21 consecutive sold out shows at the O2 dome in London...
http://www.twilightcircus.com
http://www.myspace.com/twilightcircus
By the end of today, another day is gone forever. You will never get it back.
We must never let up for a second. Work harder at every single thing - Terry Manning
'Hard drive / fan noise is the new tape hiss' - R.Settee
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| Re: oh no, not another FREE album... [message #339905 is a reply to message #339880 ] |
Thu, 08 May 2008 19:35 |
kats
Messages: 570
Registered: September 2005 |
Gold Member |
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| mgod wrote on Thu, 08 May 2008 23:24 |
If you had as much money as Paul McCuteone and next to nobody was buying your record, what would you do?
But if those figures are accurate, that's pretty depressing, given how many fans the man still has.
DS
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What would I do? I'd saturate the market with my music, stir up some hype and go on tour for $200/ticket.
But that's just me.
PS, if there's an upside to this madness - I've had the opportunity to see live shows by groups that normally would pass on my little town.
Tony Katsabanis
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| Re: oh no, not another FREE album... [message #339909 is a reply to message #339892 ] |
Thu, 08 May 2008 20:01 |
RSettee
Messages: 3635
Registered: November 2006
Location: Winnipeg, MB |
Platinum Member |
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| rnicklaus wrote on Thu, 08 May 2008 18:30 |
the 100K sales number is for the UK only. It has scanned over 500K in the US.
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Only 500K in the US? Gold? How the mighty have fallen.
Ryan Settee,
Instrospection Records
http://www.myspace.com/highwattelectrocutions
"Wickedly pulsing washes and acoustic jangles lead to gorgeous clean tones and winsome noodling. The denoument feels indefinite, woozy, like waking up from a strange dream."--Cosmo Lee, All Music Guide
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| Re: oh no, not another FREE album... [message #339928 is a reply to message #339909 ] |
Thu, 08 May 2008 22:25 |
mikey
Messages: 95
Registered: October 2005
Location: L.A. |
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I don't think many of his older fan are into buying recordings like they did in the 60's 70's and 80's....i know i don't seem to be buying much music anymore.Once in a while i'll pick up someones new release
MIKEY
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| Re: oh no, not another FREE album... [message #339964 is a reply to message #339905 ] |
Fri, 09 May 2008 04:27 |
RMoore
Messages: 3064
Registered: May 2004
Location: Netherlands (ex-Vancouver... |
Platinum Member |
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| kats wrote on Fri, 09 May 2008 02:35 |
What would I do? I'd saturate the market with my music, stir up some hype and go on tour for $200/ticket.
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Yup - that's the ticket
http://www.twilightcircus.com
http://www.myspace.com/twilightcircus
By the end of today, another day is gone forever. You will never get it back.
We must never let up for a second. Work harder at every single thing - Terry Manning
'Hard drive / fan noise is the new tape hiss' - R.Settee
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| Re: oh no, not another FREE album... [message #340008 is a reply to message #340005 ] |
Fri, 09 May 2008 09:46 |
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mgod
Messages: 2257
Registered: January 2007
Location: L.A. |
Platinum Member |
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| mattrussell wrote on Fri, 09 May 2008 07:28 |
trent reznor is doing the same thing. nin's new one, 'the slip', is a free d/l record (at least for now). he even offers it at 24/96 wav if you want it.
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I did want it. It downloaded a torrent file instantly, the whole album 96/24. Now I'm trying to figure out how to play it.
DS
"As a man who has devoted his whole life to the most clear-headed science, to the study of matter, I can tell you as a result of my research about the atoms this much: There is no matter as such! All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particles of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together . . . We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent Mind. This Mind is the matrix of all matter."
- Nobel Prize-winning physicist Max Planck, from a speech he delivered in Florence, Italy in 1944, entitled "Das Wesen der Materie" (The Character of Matter)
"My goal is simple. It is a complete understanding of the universe, why it is as it is and why it exists at all." - Stephen Hawking
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| Re: oh no, not another FREE album... [message #340033 is a reply to message #340008 ] |
Fri, 09 May 2008 11:21 |
rnicklaus
Messages: 3288
Registered: May 2004
Location: Left Coast |
Platinum Member |
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I believe that the McCartney free album will be in CD format with artwork etc, just like Prince. Somebody, somewhere has to be picking up that cost.
R.N.
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| Re: oh no, not another FREE album... [message #340156 is a reply to message #340033 ] |
Fri, 09 May 2008 18:05 |
RSettee
Messages: 3635
Registered: November 2006
Location: Winnipeg, MB |
Platinum Member |
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| rnicklaus wrote on Fri, 09 May 2008 11:21 |
I believe that the McCartney free album will be in CD format with artwork etc, just like Prince. Somebody, somewhere has to be picking up that cost.
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The short synopsis of this message: if music piracy doesn't stop, you will have:
A) bands selling much, much less to a privleged few that pays much, much more
B) fans owning a piece of the master, helping fund it, having a stake in your sales, in exchange for input and percentage of sales/ royalties. In a way, the average music fan may have more invested in the release, therefore having more interest in it's well being and promotions. You're not just a fan of the band, you're helping to fund and release it. Or heck, they could even pay for you to write a song about them on the album, almost like an investor having his or her name in the list of contributors in granite in the foyer of a building.
C) MASS corporate sponsorship
The long message is this:
If he's only sold 500K, i'd hate to be that record label. As i've said, pay per byte online is the only way to salvage what's left of the music industry before everyone has to give away their music just to have their art out there. I'm sure the busker out in front of the liquor store feels the same way to the majority of people that walk by that don't put money in the guitar case.
Those avenues lead to some interesting thoughts for me, as a forward thinker who isn't thinking for today, but tomorrow.
The options seem great until you realize that the fans will probably be the next big greedy conglomerate that tells you what to do, what to write, what to wear. You're THEIR brand. They're wearing you, they're drinking you, they're consuming you. When you're accepting money from people, ultimately you have to ask: "what do they want/ need?". But really, if you think of it, it's almost no different than someone commissioning you to draw their portrait. Let's say you charge them a few grand for that portrait, and only they have it.
With the widespread popularity of music in now that the more popular it is, the less people value it, the rule of business when sales are declining rapidly, is either to offer more for less, or less for more. Anything in between, and you're destined for failure. If you jump ship to a life raft and it sinks, well, such is life. But if you stay in a rapidly sinking boat, not doing anything is sure suicide.
As an artist trying to make heads or tales of this industry when Macca has only sold 500K and is giving away mass amounts of free and it's not working, the only way to reverse it is to create a new atmosphere where music--like art originally was--wasn't meant to have your Mona Lisa hanging above everyone's couch. And charge HIGH for either the master and forget fame and fortune and all that other vanity of 20th and 21st Century art. Art, before the 20th Century, functioned on a level of where something wasn't mass produced. Even if it was reproduced, there wasn't a helluva lot of money in it. Ask yourself why "Amazing Grace" or "Gallows Pole" are "traditional". Someone, somewhere wrote that, but didn't attach their name to it. Because it wasn't for money, there was really none to be made. Sure, I guess if you were Bach or Beethoven there was some money, but look at Van Gogh--his works only started becoming worth something, when there were no more to be made.
Fame and fortune and prestige off of music and art is largely a 20th/21th Century thing. Sure it became worth something before that, but that was to the dude who had an ultra rare painting of some dead artist in his art room, sipping a Martini and laughing like a drain at how incredibly rich he is to have that painting hanging on his wall. In other words, really, the only money to be made was off ELITISM....after you were dead!
Bookmark this message and re-read it in 50 years. If something doesn't change, it will become the future---because mass promotions and mass freebies will do nothing to sell albums anyways, and fame will be more a vanity thing than it ever was in the past (ie: limos, tourbuses, fancy equipment, hooker funds, driving a car into the pool funds....all a thing of the past for new and unproven bands). Bands may very well just have to skip vanity and fame and just do what actually sells on an artistic level--and what better way than to sell a master, or individual songs to people that only they own?
That works great for well proven indie bands who, sometimes, can do short runs of records and charge $200--or more, because fame and fortune were never their goal, but what about the bigger artists? Certainly they have more overhead, more divorce fees, more mouths to feed? I'm not sure how many pool cleaners or butlers that Paul has to pay for, but I don't have that kind of overhead.
For them, it's corporate sponsorship. You're already seeing it. Selling out to the man in record numbers. "Viva Viagra". Starbucks/ Paul. Madonna/ Live Nation. You laugh, but if music keeps on being stolen, you'll hear ADS on cds. You will. Quote me on this.
I'm now thinking that corporate sponsorship may be the only way to help fund music, which is becoming more and more a vanity in today's society. More and more, music is just something on a radio--something that people enjoy, but don't necessarily buy anymore. It's a staple of pop culture, but almost so ingrained as a mass produced, mass marketed thing, in that it becomes no different than a "Drink Coke" slogan. That's what happens when you try to push out record breaking sales figures every quarter on a pie chart--music (if you factor in the inevitable backlash from popularity and huge stardom....ask any "one hit wonder" band why fans are a fickle bunch), eventually that starts becoming more about sales and pie charts and numbers than it actually becomes about music and art.
Unfortunately, art and commerce never went particularly well together. Bands are usually terrible businessmen, just as businessmen are usually terrible at nurturing and developing art if it's not selling. If you think that your favorite artists have sold out now, well, that's nothing compared to what will happen 5-10 years down the line when even Macca won't be able to give his album away. Paul has it wrong--if people don't want to pay for it, only a certain amount of people will be smart enough to realize the obvious--what's their time worth to them?. If they've got a family, a career, responsibilities (and many families have both parents working to pay bills, and that means that they're already sacrificing lots of time just to make ends meet), you think that even downloading Macca's new album is going to make a difference? Most of the people that buy music anyways are from that age group of people who still buy albums, it's just that they don't have the time. The money, usually, but not the time.
"Generation entitlement" is the one to blame here. They're the ones that never grew up with having to pay for albums, and they're also the exact demographic that you'll never please with free, anyways. They're already used to everything being free, one more free album from one more big artist won't really matter.
Paul giving away his album for free bodes as a death knell for any new artist. I don't care what anyone says, it IS a death knell. He may still have something to salvage for freebies, but for newer artists who haven't sold records, you just can't compete with free. And you also can't compete with the visage that you need to charge anything, because apparently, Paul can give away lots of freebies. So then, the fan thinks, "well, why can't ALL music be free, ALL the time?".
Sure that just read like the adults talking on Charlie Brown cartoons. For everyone that read it, there's some forward looking things in there that I sure don't expect people to "get".
Ryan Settee,
Instrospection Records
http://www.myspace.com/highwattelectrocutions
"Wickedly pulsing washes and acoustic jangles lead to gorgeous clean tones and winsome noodling. The denoument feels indefinite, woozy, like waking up from a strange dream."--Cosmo Lee, All Music Guide
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| Re: oh no, not another FREE album... [message #340176 is a reply to message #339873 ] |
Fri, 09 May 2008 20:43 |
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Emil "Gus" Gawaziuk
Messages: 29
Registered: April 2005
Location: Canada |
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I agree to a point with you Ryan, and, arguably, there is another interesting trend in the works underneath all of this. Certainly Sir Paul, et al that are offering free releases have another thing in common. They have done well in the past, still tour, and, most certainly have had their druthers with labels in the past. The really big thing I see is them knowing that their cut in their sales are shrinking with the advent of the download generation, so, they may as well release it for free, and make up the money on tours, merch, licensing, etc. Kind of a slowly evolving death knell for the likes of major labels and typical distribution methodology, however, pretty sure the artists wouldn't be doing it if they were uncertain of the results of their actions. People are going to download their product for free anyway, may as well provide them with a good source to do it.
Even on the NIN site when I went to go download the latest the other day, there is a lovely Creative Commons agreement, and an encouragement to share it with others. Yes, the bottom line is that nowdays it is a very different industry then it was 10 years ago. Those days of 10 years ago are very very long gone and never to return. Those of us in the support sector for the entertainment industry need to adapt to these changing climates as well. Gotta remember, as label leverage dwindles, and their dimes get thinner, major label sessions are going to do the same. A seeming natural progression. This is a very exciting and scary time in this industry (for both the live and recording side of thing).
As things change on the distribution side of things, they will invariably be changing on the production side of things. We all need to start adapting to these changes as well. There is a lot of music out there that is becoming more and more in the artist's own control. If the artist is making minimal money on it, it keeps on going down the line......... I would love to jump ahead 10 years and see how things are. I think we are just seeing the very tip of a very interesting iceberg.......
Wherever I shall go, that is where I will end up
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| Re: oh no, not another FREE album... [message #340180 is a reply to message #340176 ] |
Fri, 09 May 2008 21:09 |
d gauss
Messages: 165
Registered: April 2004 |
Active Member |
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Re: oh no, not another FREE album...
not without paul kassoff!
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