| buss compression [message #341681] |
Thu, 15 May 2008 12:06  |
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j.hall
Messages: 3217
Registered: April 2004
Location: KC |
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so, i'm re-thinking some of my "standards" and looking to play around a bit, see if something cooler won't present itself to me.
i have an SSL 384 buss compressor that sits on my stereo buss.
i hardly ever touch it.
i've always doen 4:1 ratio, the fastest release and the slowest attack
release is 100ms attack is 30ms
i'm typically compressing a mix between 1 to 3 dB
anyone have any buss comp settings that i should give a go at?
j.hall
Theta Rhythm
"You have a great ear for vibe and feel and space. I'm not looking for any of that right now."
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| Re: buss compression [message #341985 is a reply to message #341946 ] |
Fri, 16 May 2008 10:05  |
 beau
Messages: 36
Registered: May 2004
Location: california |
Member |
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| J-Texas wrote on Fri, 16 May 2008 06:12 |
| Adam Miller wrote on Fri, 16 May 2008 03:09 |
| Fig wrote on Thu, 15 May 2008 21:33 |
J, 4:1 seems like a LOT to me on the 2-bus. If you're seeing 1-3 dB of reduction, that's 4 - 12 dB of dynamic range you are sucking up.
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Eh? How does that work?
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4 to 1
4 times 3dB of reduction = 12db of dynamics you're sucking up!
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not really the case from what i understand.
A compressor reduces the gain (level) of an audio signal if its amplitude exceeds a threshold. The amount of gain reduction is determined by a ratio. For example, with a ratio of 4:1, when the (time averaged) input level is 4 dB over the threshold, the output signal level will be 1 dB over the threshold. The gain (level) has been reduced by 3 dB. When the input level is 8 dB above the threshold, the output level will be 2 dB; a 6 dB gain reduction.
A more specific example for a 4:1 ratio:
using a digital dbfs meter.
Threshold = ?10 dB
Input = ?6 dB (4 dB above the threshold)
Output = ?9 dB (1 dB above the threshold)
paece
beau
I'll take ape tit for 500.
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| Re: buss compression [message #341990 is a reply to message #341767 ] |
Fri, 16 May 2008 10:26 |
beau
Messages: 36
Registered: May 2004
Location: california |
Member |
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jay, do you find that the 4:1 sounds smoother than the 2:1 on your ssl comp? i am using the al smart c2 and prefer 2:1 for the same reason you prefer the 4:1 i love compression, and for some reason on the c2, the 2:1 sounds more aggressive than the 4:1
usually medium attack straight up at 1 i believe, with fastest release. 1-3 db of compression is all i can handle on the 2 bus, before mastering guys get mad at me.
peace
beau
I'll take ape tit for 500.
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| Re: buss compression [message #342008 is a reply to message #341985 ] |
Fri, 16 May 2008 11:12 |
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Fig
Messages: 848
Registered: May 2004
Location: Chicago, IL -- USA |
Gold Member |
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| beau wrote on Fri, 16 May 2008 10:05 |
not really the case from what i understand.
A compressor reduces the gain (level) of an audio signal if its amplitude exceeds a threshold. The amount of gain reduction is determined by a ratio. For example, with a ratio of 4:1, when the (time averaged) input level is 4 dB over the threshold, the output signal level will be 1 dB over the threshold. The gain (level) has been reduced by 3 dB. When the input level is 8 dB above the threshold, the output level will be 2 dB; a 6 dB gain reduction.
A more specific example for a 4:1 ratio:
using a digital dbfs meter.
Threshold = ?10 dB
Input = ?6 dB (4 dB above the threshold)
Output = ?9 dB (1 dB above the threshold)
paece
beau
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I'm sorry, I was just jumping to a conclusion with the simple math.
Perhaps I am generalizing and all devices actually behave differently, but the way I understand it -
when only concerned with above threshold signals at 4:1 ratio - when a 4 dB increase goes in, only a 1 dB increase comes out (not very noticable) - the GR meter reads 3 dB down. So you gotta put in a whopping 12 dB increase to get a 3 dB increase out (a noticable increase) -- you're right though, that's only 9 dB of GR - and its NOT what J is doing, either. But the implications are astounding to me.
Time constants and the actual program material can yield different results ( as can different compressors, even at the "same" settings). That may sound really cool on some room mics or something, but it seems excessive for the whole mix, IMO.
The 4 dB input increase is sure to be noticed by the listener if left uncompressed (not a bad thing in my mind) - the resulting 1 dB increase in compressed output slips by relatively unnoticed. To get a 3 dB increase at the output (again something noticable by the listener) the program has to increase by 12 dB! I guess I'm just hoping that the majority of the mix is below threshold, and therefore behaving linearly.
Lately I have been going for "dynamically open" mixes (no bus comp) and truly enjoying the 6-10 dB of dynamic range from peaks versus average levels (the clients dig it too).
I understand why a lot of modern rock recordings strive for a dynamic range of 2 or 3 dB between peaks and average - but it bothers me sometimes when I know there is so much more there that is being "contained" by bus compression.
Don't get me wrong, I loves me some juicy comp - just not on the whole mix.
Different strokes, right?
Fig
The easiest thing to do is the thing most easily forgotten.
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| Re: buss compression [message #342030 is a reply to message #342008 ] |
Fri, 16 May 2008 11:50 |
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I think somebody misunderstands how the metering on their compressors works.
I GUARANTEE I'm not taking 48dB off of a guitar track when I'm compressing 12:1 on an 1176.
As far as your mix buss comp goes, I never move away from 4:1, but the attack varies between 10ms and 30ms, depending upon the music. Release is usually is on auto, but once again, it depends upon the music.
"Hartley's Law of Inverse Tonality states that the worse the tone, the more indestructable the amp." -tarmadilo
Kyle Mann
www.kylemann.com
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| Re: buss compression [message #342052 is a reply to message #341985 ] |
Fri, 16 May 2008 13:02 |
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J-Texas
Messages: 746
Registered: May 2007
Location: Dallas, TX |
Gold Member |
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| beau wrote on Fri, 16 May 2008 10:05 |
| J-Texas wrote on Fri, 16 May 2008 06:12 |
| Adam Miller wrote on Fri, 16 May 2008 03:09 |
| Fig wrote on Thu, 15 May 2008 21:33 |
J, 4:1 seems like a LOT to me on the 2-bus. If you're seeing 1-3 dB of reduction, that's 4 - 12 dB of dynamic range you are sucking up.
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Eh? How does that work?
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4 to 1
4 times 3dB of reduction = 12db of dynamics you're sucking up!
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not really the case from what i understand.
A compressor reduces the gain (level) of an audio signal if its amplitude exceeds a threshold. The amount of gain reduction is determined by a ratio. For example, with a ratio of 4:1, when the (time averaged) input level is 4 dB over the threshold, the output signal level will be 1 dB over the threshold. The gain (level) has been reduced by 3 dB. When the input level is 8 dB above the threshold, the output level will be 2 dB; a 6 dB gain reduction.
A more specific example for a 4:1 ratio:
using a digital dbfs meter.
Threshold = ?10 dB
Input = ?6 dB (4 dB above the threshold)
Output = ?9 dB (1 dB above the threshold)
paece
beau
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I know you can't figure this out with an equation like I wrote! That was the only thing that would equal twelve.
Geez, I go to lunch and look what happens! 
Here's some good poopoo reading: http://www.barryrudolph.com/mix/comp.html
Jason Thompson
www.4141studios.com
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| Re: buss compression [message #342293 is a reply to message #342292 ] |
Sat, 17 May 2008 07:26 |
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| Adam Miller wrote on Sat, 17 May 2008 14:17 |
Not that I want to derail this topic, but if the gain reduction metering on Js mixbuss comp reads 1-3 dB, then he's reducing the dynamic range of his music by....
...take a wild guess. The metering ballistics of the SSL comp are another matter, but let's assume it gives a pretty accurate representation of what's going on.
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1-3 dB.
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