Home » R/E/P » R/E/P Saloon » Untitled.
| Re: Untitled. [message #328330 is a reply to message #328326 ] |
Thu, 27 March 2008 17:19   |
PookyNMR
Messages: 1386
Registered: April 2004
Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada |
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| Barry Hufker wrote on Thu, 27 March 2008 15:49 |
If you read the story I paraphrased I'd hope the meaning would be clear. Essentially the Apostles knew all the Christians at this time as it was a very small group. So they were amazed when they found other people who could do what they could do. Christ said in essence, even if you don't know these people they are doing my work.
So. The Christians weren't called Christians until the term first appeared in Antioch. So if a person has the faith but doesn't know the particular term of Christian does that keep them from being saved? And if the Christians weren't called Christian until Antioch, does it mean they weren't saved before then?
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I think we're needlessly arguing over the semantics of a particular label.
The original usage of "Christian" in Antioch was more literally translated "little Christs" and was meant as a a derogatory term.
The label doesn't matter. I know a number of believers who dislike the label "Christian" as it associates them with a number of connotations to that label that they do not agree with. Yet these folks are highly dedicated to Jesus and very well educated in the faith.
I think it matters very little what one calls oneself ("Christian" or "Believer" or "Jesus follower" or whatever) as long as one's faith is solidly in Jesus.
Nathan Rousu
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| Re: Untitled. [message #328332 is a reply to message #328326 ] |
Thu, 27 March 2008 17:19 |
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 J-Texas
Messages: 695
Registered: May 2007
Location: Dallas, TX |
Gold Member |
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| Barry Hufker wrote on Thu, 27 March 2008 16:49 |
| J-Texas wrote on Thu, 27 March 2008 12:51 |
| Barry Hufker wrote on Thu, 27 March 2008 00:03 |
Jesus is not just for Christians. He is for all who believe in his saving power and grace.
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I can't even continue reading your post, I'm so confused about this.
Isn't that who the Christians were? I mean REAL Christians who followed His teachings after he died through the apostles?
Come on man. Christ is for the Christians. The splintering of religion after that point... that's the work of men.
The Merriam Webster FIRST definition of "Christian":
one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ.
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If you read the story I paraphrased I'd hope the meaning would be clear. Essentially the Apostles knew all the Christians at this time as it was a very small group. So they were amazed when they found other people who could do what they could do. Christ said in essence, even if you don't know these people they are doing my work.
So. The Christians weren't called Christians until the term first appeared in Antioch. So if a person has the faith but doesn't know the particular term of Christian does that keep them from being saved? And if the Christians weren't called Christian until Antioch, does it mean they weren't saved before then?
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Barry, read the MW definition again man. Even if one doesn't call himself Christian, if he believes in the teachings of Christ he is a Christian. So, therefore, Christ IS for the Christian. This is a silly argument my man.
Jason Thompson
www.4141studios.com
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| Re: Untitled. [message #328377 is a reply to message #326934 ] |
Thu, 27 March 2008 19:10 |
maxim
Messages: 4845
Registered: February 2005 |
Platinum Member |
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"I can no more understand what it is like to be a homosexual than I can understand what it is like to be black, or to be a man, or to be God."
think again
we are none so different from each other
just one comment on the subject of mental health professionals' experience with any "group"
they only see the DYSFUNCTIONAL
common pitfall when trying to extrapolate....
cheers,
max
sydney, oz
http://www.asylumdreams.com
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| Re: Untitled. [message #328420 is a reply to message #328395 ] |
Thu, 27 March 2008 22:25 |
PookyNMR
Messages: 1386
Registered: April 2004
Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada |
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| danickstr wrote on Thu, 27 March 2008 19:25 |
Do most christians think that Heaven is hidden in an extra-dimensional location?
Or is it on a planet in another galaxy? Or in the clouds, but not detectable by our current instrumentation?
Just wondering if there is a consensus on this, since most old drawings show god in the clouds above us, but the invention of flying machines sort of made that spot not as inaccessible as it was 2300 years ago.
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The word heaven appears in the scriptures in three different forms with 3 different meanings.
The meaning that I believe you are thinking of happens to be the heaven that refers to the spiritual dimension where God lives that is currently hidden from our perception.
Theologically speaking, you will never find in the Bible that after you die you go to Heaven.
How heaven relates to us after death and at the end of the age is this. Jesus will come again as he promised and consummate his Kingdom. He'll finish what he started. He'll rid the world of sin, decay, sickness / disease, death and the devil - all that was broken and destroyed in the world. He will renew all of creation. All will rise from the dead in the body (physical resurrection). Those who believed will be given new glorified immortal bodies just like Jesus. Heaven will join and become part of the earth - God will dwell among his people. We will be in perfect community with God and with one another.
To paraphrase theologian Derek Morphew, when Jesus prayed to the Heavenly Father "Your Kingdom come on earth as it is in Heaven" he was really praying that the events of the end of the world would breakthrough into the here and now. The good news is that those 'end of the world' events mean that heaven and earth collide and all that is broken gets fixed.
Nathan Rousu
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| Re: Untitled. [message #328437 is a reply to message #328420 ] |
Thu, 27 March 2008 23:47 |
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Jessica A. Engle
Messages: 424
Registered: February 2007
Location: nebulous at best |
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John,
I am so flattered by your approval. Hopefully not because I am vain but because it means I'm doing something right.
But don't forget! Even tho' this thread is Untitled, it began with listening... not speaking.
As so many have posted so much, I am going to try and touch up what I've missed in the past 8 hours or so!
There is some chat going on right now about whether or not gays are that way by nature, or are made into it by circumstances. This may be an important question to answer, spiritually speaking. But even so, I challenge you to step back from the argument and consider why it matters so much to you. Why do you want or need to know the answer to this question? Is it because you hate the hipocricy of Christians, or because you really want to know in order to understand gay people better?
I want to understand gay people, to the extent that I can.
| maxim wrote on Thu, 27 March 2008 19:10 |
"I can no more understand what it is like to be a homosexual than I can understand what it is like to be black, or to be a man, or to be God."
think again
we are none so different from each other
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That was me what said that. And while I get what you're saying, I never meant to imply that I don't try to understand. I try very hard because I have learned that it is the differences in others that enrich my life. Traits (or beliefs) I have in common with others are good for bonding, but the differences are what make life, err... interesting. But facts are facts, and humans cannot read each other's minds! So I cannot understand (I will add the qualifier "fully") any other person, regardless of sameness/differentness. It is a limitation of humanity. And I will mention again, this is not a limitation for God.
Nathan,
Forgive me for editing such a fine post. I hope I have kept your original intention intact, but have shortened it so it is easier for others to follow:
| PookyNMR wrote on Thu, 27 March 2008 17:12 |
We are to speak up and to act when we see injustice. We are to care for those who are hungry. We are to help those who are in need. We are to speak up when we see an alcoholic friend destroying his life and that of his family. We are to advocate for the refugees in our cities who are being taken advantage of. We are to mentor (disciple) people and help them in the process of maturity in Jesus that they may experience his life and have it to the full.
When referring to the 'mandate', I'm referring to our Kingdom mission, which is indeed to change the world.
I am not supporting 'changing others' in perhaps the same way that you are imagining. I believe change will come as we engage Jesus and his Kingdom.
Quite possibly, I've over stated my point to Jessica. I apologize - too much coffee. But I don't agree that we're not involved in the process of change in individuals lives. And I also believe that we are instructed to be involved in the lives of others in positive ways as we express Jesus and His Kingdom. In doing so, we will be agents of change.
EDIT:
Having thought about this for a few more minutes a few more thoughts came to mind.
Are Christians to call people to repentance? Repentance means literally to change - to change your thinking and actions.
The difference is - which Jesus modeled - is that repentance is always in invitation with a promise attached. Repent - change your thinking and your actions - and the Kingdom of God will come upon you.
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I like your thinking, but would question your description of what our "mandate" is.
Christians serve as a proxy for God and non-believers. The proxy does not have power. God has power. Any change that comes (and it does come, and will come) will come according to God's design and according to his work. Not ours. Not anyone's but God's.
God could save people without our help if he wanted. He could do it, you know.
We feel empowered by the idea of "changing the world" or even the thought of changing one person. But change does not come from us. And God says to be meek, not to seek out power (whether physical or psychological).
| PookyNMR wrote on Thu, 27 March 2008 17:12 |
I think a lot of the bitter sentiment come from the fact that when many Christians have called others to 'repentance' that it was not an invitation with a promise. It was forceful, fear filled coercion, sometimes manipulative, etc.
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This is a very good observation. I agree.
For those who are quoting scriptures:
Please do. However, in the interest of my original idea behind this thread, let me offer you all the following to consider:
If you just listen, really try and understand God from your heart not from your head you may find a whole other world God created. It is not a world of words in a book. Not a world of laws. Not a landscape of what sins are worse than others, nor greater condemnation for some than others.
Yes, the words are there, and they are important. But I challenge you! Admit to yourself that there might be something more than the words. Something greater. Something that will be hard for some (like me) to understand.
There are no brownie points for knowing the rules inside and out. But there is so much to gain by moving above and beyond a simple debate over words and meanings.
Please try. Even a non-Christian could ask this of you, and I don't think it is a discriminatory or narrow-minded thing to ask.
You guys are really hanging in here. I am proud of you. Don't let your nerves wear thin. Take a break from this thread if you need to. I may. Noone will think less of you.
Jessica
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| Re: Untitled. [message #328444 is a reply to message #326934 ] |
Fri, 28 March 2008 00:39 |
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studiojimi
Messages: 1029
Registered: April 2004
Location: Hollywood, CA |
Platinum Member |
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the greatest thing for me about this thread
and i'm so happy jessica created "untitled"
is
everyone had the opportunity to research their Christ potential
for me i affirm my faith daily in so many places and opportunities
but this thread was getting out of the box in a fresh way
and showing up for Him in just the way He needs me to do it.
not your way
cuz i can't have any of your ways
and you can't have mine
i'm grateful and praising him once more
for life and more of it in abundance!
thank God for a clear mind.
thank God for the breath of life
thank God for creativity and the gift of being a recording artist and producer and a (sort of) engineer out of necessity
thank God for timing, pitch, interpretation, conviction and vibe.
thank and praise God for all the good HE has in store that come from unexpected places
and that i know if i am to partner with Him
and i choose to .. . .
i need to make my plans LARGER.
CAZADOR RECORDING
STUDIOJIMI'S PSW SONG FORUM
MY MYSPACE
How very good and pleasant it is
when kindred live together in unity!
Psalm 133:1
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| Re: Untitled. [message #328511 is a reply to message #326934 ] |
Fri, 28 March 2008 09:03 |
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studiojimi
Messages: 1029
Registered: April 2004
Location: Hollywood, CA |
Platinum Member |
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SHALL I LOOK FOR ANOTHER?
When John the Baptist
was imprisoned by Herod,
King of Galilee,
he began to doubt his spiritual revelation
that Jesus
was the promised Messiah,
and
sent his disciples
to inquire of Jesus,
"Are you the one or shall we look for another?"
When we are experiencing
trying conditions,
even though
we are versed in spiritual principles
and
have seen them work in our life,
doubt may creep in.
During these difficult times,
we are tempted
to look for something
or
someone other than
our indwelling Christ.
We may need
to remind ourselves
that there is no other.
There is only one --- God.
No matter
how difficult the situation appears
or
how drastic the condition,
God is the answer.
(so what's the question?)
Put doubt,
shame and blame behind you.
Calm your thoughts,
be still, listen,
and
be at peace.
Trust the Christ within you
to meet all of your needs
in all situations.
" . . . Are You the Coming One,
or do we look for another?"
Matthew 11:3
CAZADOR RECORDING
STUDIOJIMI'S PSW SONG FORUM
MY MYSPACE
How very good and pleasant it is
when kindred live together in unity!
Psalm 133:1
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| Re: Untitled. [message #328552 is a reply to message #328437 ] |
Fri, 28 March 2008 11:20 |
PookyNMR
Messages: 1386
Registered: April 2004
Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada |
Platinum Member |
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| Jessica A. Engle wrote on Thu, 27 March 2008 22:47 |
JI like your thinking, but would question your description of what our "mandate" is.
Christians serve as a proxy for God and non-believers. The proxy does not have power. God has power. Any change that comes (and it does come, and will come) will come according to God's design and according to his work. Not ours. Not anyone's but God's.
God could save people without our help if he wanted. He could do it, you know.
We feel empowered by the idea of "changing the world" or even the thought of changing one person. But change does not come from us. And God says to be meek, not to seek out power (whether physical or psychological).
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I fully agree with you that God has the power to do whatever he wishes. I also fully agree that the power to change needs to come from God. If it doesn't come from God, then where does it come from? But I also find it interesting that God most often choses to express his power through his people.
Since I quoted N T Wright earlier, I'll do it again. "Meek does not mean weak." Meek does mean being submissive to the will and the ways of the Heavenly Father just like Jesus. Jesus did only what he saw the Father doing (John 5). And he was obedient even unto death.
"Changing the world" is not an emotional feel good statement as some often make it to be. It's part of our mission, part of our mandate.
So as we follow Jesus in His ministry, we do so by his leading and by his power, following his example with the Father. But we still do have a mission. Just as Jesus was sent out (mission) by the Father, so he sends us (mission). Our mandate is our Jesus given mission with our Jesus given message and our Jesus given demonstrations of the Kingdom (just as Jesus did).
The mission / mandate can be seen through Jesus. In 1 John we read that the reason Jesus came was to destroy the works of the devil (which is synonymous with bringing the Kingdom of God (displacing the Kingdom of Darkness)). In the Gospels we read that the central message of Jesus is "repent (change) for the Kingdom of God is at hand (you're in proximity to encounter God's plans for total restoration of things like they are in heaven)." How the Kingdom message and mission unfolds is a large topic, but that's essentially where I'm coming from when I talk about our mandate. Accepting Jesus invitation to be participants in the Kingdom mission.
| Jessica A. Engle wrote on Thu, 27 March 2008 22:47 |
| PookyNMR wrote on Thu, 27 March 2008 17:12 |
I think a lot of the bitter sentiment come from the fact that when many Christians have called others to 'repentance' that it was not an invitation with a promise. It was forceful, fear filled coercion, sometimes manipulative, etc.
|
This is a very good observation. I agree.
For those who are quoting scriptures:
Please do. However, in the interest of my original idea behind this thread, let me offer you all the following to consider:
If you just listen, really try and understand God from your heart not from your head you may find a whole other world God created. It is not a world of words in a book. Not a world of laws. Not a landscape of what sins are worse than others, nor greater condemnation for some than others.
Yes, the words are there, and they are important. But I challenge you! Admit to yourself that there might be something more than the words. Something greater. Something that will be hard for some (like me) to understand.
There are no brownie points for knowing the rules inside and out. But there is so much to gain by moving above and beyond a simple debate over words and meanings.
Please try. Even a non-Christian could ask this of you, and I don't think it is a discriminatory or narrow-minded thing to ask.
You guys are really hanging in here. I am proud of you. Don't let your nerves wear thin. Take a break from this thread if you need to. I may. Noone will think less of you.
|
It's hard to know someone from text appearing on the internet.  I can assure you that I am a passionate person of the heart. That heart leads me to the lost and the least. Don't let my rambling thoughts fool you. 
However, through my life experience I have come to value a balance of both the heart and the head. There must be balance. If one lives purely in their head they miss out on a lot of the beauty, wonder and mystery of life. If one lives purely out of their heart, they are easily blown by the wind to whatever captures their affections.
I do / have done a lot of work in the Christian community. I've seen a lot of things. A lot of folks are passionate about a lot of ideas that they hear. However, a lot of those ideas are not always well founded in the Word. Sometimes even antithetical. I'm all for following God with all one's heart. However, I firmly believe that such passion needs to be balanced with wisdom. And that wisdom I believe comes from a firm understanding of the word.
Nathan Rousu
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