| Re: Alternatives To Neumann M150's For DECCA Tree? [message #396707 is a reply to message #396462 ] |
Sat, 10 January 2009 23:16   |
 Rich Mays
Messages: 127
Registered: April 2004 |
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Simon Eadon found (and I can corroborate) that Schoeps MK2S with balls work VERY well in the D-tree.
Simon was in the middle of a Beethoven Symphony series when Decca bellied up and the M50s were withdrawn. The client wanted to continue so Simon switched to the Schoeps and in his words, "no one seemed to notice."
Either they were all lead-ears, OR.....
Rich
Sonare Recordings
www.sonarerecordings.com
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| Re: Alternatives To Neumann M150's For DECCA Tree? [message #396730 is a reply to message #396707 ] |
Sun, 11 January 2009 05:52 |
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Schallfeldnebel
Messages: 796
Registered: October 2004
Location: Europe |
Gold Member |
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Rich wrote:"The client wanted to continue so Simon switched to the Schoeps and in his words, "no one seemed to notice." "
I was in a similar situation, one Neumann TLM50s (nickel diaphragm) bellied up, and I had no other choice than bringing in the B&K4003 with spheres. .... and no one seemed to have noticed either.
Bill Mueller:"Only very recently, has the availability of cheap consumer based gear popularized the concept of a rank amateur as an audio engineer. Unfortunately, this has also degraded the reputation of the audio engineer to the lowest level in its history. A sad thing indeed for those of us professionals."
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| Re: Alternatives To Neumann M150's For DECCA Tree? [message #397074 is a reply to message #396730 ] |
Tue, 13 January 2009 05:42 |
Daniel_Dettwiler
Messages: 89
Registered: May 2004
Location: basel, switzerland |
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For what is worth, but I had a similar situation for my last filmmusic scoring that I recorded (die wilden hühner). The bugdet was not quiet as high as otherwise and I do not have m50 or tlm 50 or m150 at the moment and we couldn't rent them. So I took 3 dpa's 4006 with balls for the tree and the recording was beautiful, and the composer (niki reiser) thought it was the best orchesterrecording that he ever had and the mixer of the film also was full of compliments about how good the scoore soundet. Ofcourse this has also to do with the room that was great, check out that sutido: www.volkshausstudio.com . And what helped a lot to get the warmth was to have great mics for spots and what I tried for the first time: 2 U47 in omni AB 2 meters behind the tree. Those sounded beautiful when blendet with the tree...
Daniel
www.ideeundklang.com
www.volkshausstudio.com
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Daniel Dettwiler
www.ideeundklang.com
www.volkshausstudio.com
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| Re: Alternatives To Neumann M150's For DECCA Tree? [message #412700 is a reply to message #412273 ] |
Sat, 21 March 2009 10:56 |
Daniel_Dettwiler
Messages: 89
Registered: May 2004
Location: basel, switzerland |
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| wildplum wrote on Thu, 19 March 2009 18:34 |
Daniel- which size ball did you use on the 4006?
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I will check on Monday...
Daniel
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Daniel Dettwiler
www.ideeundklang.com
www.volkshausstudio.com
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| Re: Alternatives To Neumann M150's For DECCA Tree? [message #412854 is a reply to message #412700 ] |
Sun, 22 March 2009 14:30 |
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Schallfeldnebel
Messages: 796
Registered: October 2004
Location: Europe |
Gold Member |
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The only sphere diameter giving similar specs as the M50, is the 5cm one. Check the graphs in the paper DPA has published.
SFN
Bill Mueller:"Only very recently, has the availability of cheap consumer based gear popularized the concept of a rank amateur as an audio engineer. Unfortunately, this has also degraded the reputation of the audio engineer to the lowest level in its history. A sad thing indeed for those of us professionals."
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| Re: Alternatives To Neumann M150's For DECCA Tree? [message #412954 is a reply to message #412700 ] |
Mon, 23 March 2009 07:35 |
Daniel_Dettwiler
Messages: 89
Registered: May 2004
Location: basel, switzerland |
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| Daniel_Dettwiler wrote on Sat, 21 March 2009 15:56 |
| wildplum wrote on Thu, 19 March 2009 18:34 |
Daniel- which size ball did you use on the 4006?
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I will check on Monday...
Schallfeldnebel:
The only sphere diameter giving similar specs as the M50, is the 5cm one. Check the graphs in the paper DPA has published.
Daniel
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Aha. 5 cm are mine...
Daniel
www.ideeundklang.com
www.volkshausstudio.com
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Daniel Dettwiler
www.ideeundklang.com
www.volkshausstudio.com
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| Re: Alternatives To Neumann M150's For DECCA Tree? [message #413078 is a reply to message #412854 ] |
Mon, 23 March 2009 19:09 |
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Klaus Heyne
Messages: 2942
Registered: April 2004 |
Platinum Member |
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| Schallfeldnebel wrote on Sun, 22 March 2009 12:30 |
The only sphere diameter giving similar specs as the M50, is the 5cm one. Check the graphs in the paper DPA has published.
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Hard to believe, as the ball in the M50 is exactly 40mm ø and of a material which contributes audibly to the timbre of the mic.
On that note: I did tests for a client where I transplanted Neumann's M150 ball (40mm, but of a rather soft and light plastic) into his M50, retaining both the M150's amp and capsule configuration. I found that, just switching the whole head, changed the sound quite clearly (and not for the better, in my opinion.)
Klaus Heyne
German Masterworks
www.GermanMasterworks.com
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| Re: Alternatives To Neumann M150's For DECCA Tree? [message #413132 is a reply to message #413110 ] |
Mon, 23 March 2009 23:50 |
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Klaus Heyne
Messages: 2942
Registered: April 2004 |
Platinum Member |
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| dbock wrote on Mon, 23 March 2009 19:53 |
Klaus, what material would you say the new M150 ball was made of? I'm surprised they would have "gone soft" on it.
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I am not a plastics expert, but it felt to the touch and dented very much like Nylon or something similar would feel or dent.
The larger acoustic issue, in my mind, and probable source for unpleasant artifacts is the fact that the M150 ball is hollow.
Yes, of course, if you don't have a comparison like the real thing next to it, the mic's sound is probably quite acceptable. But how can I ever forget such a comparison, and go to a condition that existed before I heard the M50 next to it?
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As I've said often, it is not the size of the sphere per se, it is the ratio of the sphere's size to the size of the diaphragm...
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You are quite right, Barry. The 12mm M150 titanium capsule is smaller than the K50, but, if there is a fixed ratio of ball-to-diaphragm ø, what was the DPA capsule's ø?
Klaus Heyne
German Masterworks
www.GermanMasterworks.com
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| Re: Alternatives To Neumann M150's For DECCA Tree? [message #413216 is a reply to message #413207 ] |
Tue, 24 March 2009 12:18 |
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Klaus Heyne
Messages: 2942
Registered: April 2004 |
Platinum Member |
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'Handling' noise is one way to interpret microphonics: I pinged the ball with my finger and it created a resonance. That means, sound sources above a certain level will trigger the ball into resonating, adding an audible artifact to the mic's signal.
It would be fairly easy to make two tests of the same recorded high-impact, short-duration sound source. One, with the ball as is, and two, after spritzing the ball full of a damping goo (silicone glue, E6000 or similar), then comparing the sound waves created by an impact sound.
There was a reason why Neumann/NWDR originally used a high-density, solid Plexiglass ball for the M50.
Klaus Heyne
German Masterworks
www.GermanMasterworks.com
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