| Neumann TLM 67 [message #339559] |
Wed, 07 May 2008 10:03  |
 jzombie
Messages: 46
Registered: May 2004
Location: NYC |
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just saw this in the AES newsletter:
Regarding the TLM 67 - making its formal debut at AES Europe - Fraissinet reveals that it "basically has the shape of the old U67 but with a different content. The U67 was a tube microphone, but this new TLM has a special circuit which creates the typical sound of the old U67 tube mic. It also features a special colour so that it can be easily distinguished from a regular U87 or U67, and carries a special metal emblem showing Georg Neumann [to reflect] the company's 80 years."
(emphasis added to reflect my skepticism!)
Jeff Hoffman
http://www.myspace.com/zombiesofthestratosphere
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| Re: Neumann TLM 67 [message #340879 is a reply to message #339559 ] |
Tue, 13 May 2008 02:17  |
Nick Eipers
Messages: 398
Registered: March 2005
Location: Chicago area |
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While I haven't heard the TLM67, nor know the price, I don't see why Neumann is doing something "bad" or "wrong" by designing and building mics that the project/home studio can afford.
Sure, they market it like it's a U67 for cheap - what choice do they have? Have you read the ads for M-Audio's Sputnik? SE Electronics? Rode? "Just like a vintage German tube mic for $299", "Beat our U47 in 9 out of 10 tests" etc... Yikes! Unfortunately, marketing to that audience is a little different than the engineer using U67s, U47s and M49s on a regular basis...
You can call it "cashing in", or "lowering their standards", but I'd rather buy a TLM103 than ANY of the dozen-plus Chinese and Australian mics I've demoed. Much rather.
I haven't heard the TLM49, nor therefore Neumann's "special circuit", but - taking into account the included shockmount - it's also in the sub-$1k range. The only other "real" LDC mics in that range would by the 414, and maybe an Audio Technica 4050/4060. Again, I'd rank the TLM103 as useful as those.
Nick Eipers
Freelance Recording Engineer / Producer
Shantyville Recording Studio / Chicago Recording Company
Adjunct Faculty, Columbia College Chicago, Dept. of Audio Arts & Acoustics
www.nickeipers.com
www.myspace.com/nickeipers
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| Re: Neumann TLM 67 [message #345050 is a reply to message #339559 ] |
Wed, 28 May 2008 18:22 |
Nick Eipers
Messages: 398
Registered: March 2005
Location: Chicago area |
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Why do the TLM 67 and TLM 49 have such low SPL handling capability, when other TLM mics, like the 170 and 103, have much higher ratings?
Assuming it's something to do with the "tube characteristic" emulation circuit - has anyone overloaded a TLM49? I assume it doesn't sound like a U87 when it's pushed.
For that matter, why can the TLM103 handle more SPL that a U87Ai, when it's the capsule itself that distorts first in the 87? When they say the TLM103 capsule is "based on" the U87, is that "very loosely based on"?
Nick Eipers
Freelance Recording Engineer / Producer
Shantyville Recording Studio / Chicago Recording Company
Adjunct Faculty, Columbia College Chicago, Dept. of Audio Arts & Acoustics
www.nickeipers.com
www.myspace.com/nickeipers
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| Re: Neumann TLM 67 [message #345137 is a reply to message #339559 ] |
Thu, 29 May 2008 01:21 |
Nick Eipers
Messages: 398
Registered: March 2005
Location: Chicago area |
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J.J. -
The TLM49 specs say 110dB SPL for .5% THD.
The TLM103 is 138dB SPL.
It's one of the few specs I take some notice of, especially in non-tube mics.
The U87Ai is rated at 117dB SPL, and I've certainly experienced the nasty overload characteristic with a number of vocalists.
The TLM67 is rated at 105dB SPL in cardioid (!).
Klaus has exhaustively explained that the overload in the U87Ai happens at the capsule before or at more or less the same point as the electronics. (If I'm not oversimplifying). Obviously, the TLM103 capsule is different enough that it can handle 138, and I must say I haven't distorted one.
So do we assume, in the TLM67, that the "tube characteristic" is intentional overloading at 105dB SPL?
Nick Eipers
Freelance Recording Engineer / Producer
Shantyville Recording Studio / Chicago Recording Company
Adjunct Faculty, Columbia College Chicago, Dept. of Audio Arts & Acoustics
www.nickeipers.com
www.myspace.com/nickeipers
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| Re: Neumann TLM 67 [message #345146 is a reply to message #345137 ] |
Thu, 29 May 2008 01:59 |
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Klaus Heyne
Messages: 2027
Registered: April 2004 |
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Regarding capsule distortion of K67/87/870 capsules:
I am starting to think that the lack of low end response of recent (last few years) K870 capsules may have something to do with Neumann trying to reign in capsule distortion by upping diaphragm tension...
But I am not certain as of yet.
The capsule distortion in (older) Neumann U87 was particularly noticeable with close-up vocal work. I have not had trouble with high SPL over distances of 1 meter or farther.
There must be something going on with excess air exciting non-linear swings of the diaphragm's movement (distortion) relative to its resting position in these capsules. I have not seen this in any other Neumann LDC.
I don't believe that Neumann tests its mics' headroom behavior that way, but probably either tests amp distortion only, with a test signal at the FET input (most likely, as this is the test protocol of most manufacturers) or measures distortion @ distances of 1 meter or more, with the complete mic, capsule and all.
Klaus Heyne
German Masterworks
www.GermanMasterworks.com
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| Re: Neumann TLM 67 [message #350194 is a reply to message #345156 ] |
Tue, 17 June 2008 13:56 |
Dale Ulan
Messages: 72
Registered: April 2005
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada |
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| MDM, wrote on Thu, 29 May 2008 03:54 |
it's probably harder to tune a loose membrane than a tighter one.
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I would doubt Neumann would do it for that purpose as they have been tensioning diaphragms for many years. A tighter diaphragm is easier to get tensioned evenly and tuned in, at least in my basement workshop it sure is. But the backplate and diaphragm tension have to be designed as a system. Taking a K67 and putting a tight diaphragm on it is a sure way to get no bass output, and very poor balance.
Dale Ulan
10000 Cows Recording Studio
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
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| Re: Neumann TLM 67 [message #350450 is a reply to message #339559 ] |
Wed, 18 June 2008 13:43 |
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PlugHead
Messages: 130
Registered: April 2004
Location: Dundas, ON, Canada |
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I for one will hold my skepticism till I actually hear this mic. I'm quite interested in it, as some of my favourite mics have been well maintained U67's, and NOTHING in the current market has come even close to re-creating that sound IMHO.
Let's wait till these drop and folks get some hrs on them and THEN cast their opinions, which most def. will be as varied as one vintage U67 to the next...
N. Jay Burr
PlugHead Productions
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