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Tracking a hollow body electric.. [message #358887]

Tue, 22 July 2008 17:31

binary is currently offline

binary
Messages: 83
Registered: April 2008
Location: Leeds, UK

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Hello,

I'm tracking the last track of the album! Tomorrow.. With a Gibson custom ES-175 (hollow body).

I've also borrowed a Fender Deluxe Hot Rod combo.

Basically I'm looking for tips on mics, placement and what sort of size room (if important).

I'm looking for something quite jazzy, rich and full bodied.

I have a ribbon mic, a valve mic and a few other condensers and dynamics..

Anybody have any suggestions for a good starting point?

Regards,

Marco

laugh and the world laughs with you, weep and you weep alone

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Re: Tracking a hollow body electric.. [message #358898 is a reply to message #358887 ]

Tue, 22 July 2008 18:23

C.Cash is currently offline

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You may get more response in the "Whatever Works" forum.

" Yellow is the new Red " T.Manning

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Re: Tracking a hollow body electric.. [message #358901 is a reply to message #358887 ]

Tue, 22 July 2008 18:25

Bill_Urick is currently offline

Bill_Urick
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However you mic the amp you might try micing the guitar acoustically as well. Joe Pass cut the album "Virtuoso" with a 175 that way only. No amp.

uhhh...

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Re: Tracking a hollow body electric.. [message #358946 is a reply to message #358887 ]

Tue, 22 July 2008 21:45

John Noll
Messages: 113
Registered: December 2005
Location: Red Bank, NJ

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Traditional jazz type sound ala Wes Mongomery/Tal Farlow? Definitely try to capture some of the acoustic sound of the instrument. Try having the player sit in a chair 4-5 feet from the amp. Use a figure eight ribbon and place it somewhere in between the guitar and the amp and keep moving it around until you get a pleasing combination of the amp and the natural acoustic sound of the guitar. The amp should be at a relatively low volume so you can get clean and rich bass response.

http://www.retromedia.net

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Re: Tracking a hollow body electric.. [message #358952 is a reply to message #358887 ]

Tue, 22 July 2008 22:21

Audio Craftsman is currently offline

Audio Craftsman
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Location: Southern California

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Back in Feb I recorded a rockabilly trio that included a Gibson hollow body. On the cabinet I set up an Audio Technica 4060 tube mic with a Gefell UMT70S in mid/side (the UMT70 was the side). I also put up a tranformer modded sm57 for the tunes that were "hot".
index.php/fa/9563/0/

index.php/fa/9563/0/

If you've got a good sounding room, some early reflections will add a lot (as others have suggested). The mid/side gave me the ability to control width and the contribution the room made. But hey, if you've got lots of mics and channels, put them all over the place and choose when you mix. Try to place at least one "perfect" mic that has a good balance of direct vs ambient sound.

It seems to me that the frequency response of all guitar cabinets starts to get stable at a distance greater or equal to the size of the cone. Any closer and things can get weird, in my opinion.

Sounds like a fun gig. Enjoy.

Attachment: 22b_GuitarCabinetAndMics_sml.jpg
(Size: 119.47KB, Downloaded 527 time(s))

Randy Coppinger, Audio Craftsman

“A hammer and chisel do not a sculptor make."
- Michelangelo

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Re: Tracking a hollow body electric.. [message #358954 is a reply to message #358952 ]

Tue, 22 July 2008 22:26

Audio Craftsman is currently offline

Audio Craftsman
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Here's another angle on that same setup that lets you see the sm57 and the cabinet face.
index.php/fa/9565/0/

index.php/fa/9565/0/

You can also see the foam under cabinet used to help minimize interaction with the floor and table top. The nearest wall was about three feet away.

Attachment: 26b_GuitarCabinetAndMics_sml.jpg
(Size: 208.50KB, Downloaded 525 time(s))

Randy Coppinger, Audio Craftsman

“A hammer and chisel do not a sculptor make."
- Michelangelo

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Re: Tracking a hollow body electric.. [message #358956 is a reply to message #358952 ]

Tue, 22 July 2008 22:36

Audio Craftsman is currently offline

Audio Craftsman
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Here's a link to four clips from that Rockabilly project in case you want to hear it. The third clip is the sm57 panned slightly left with a touch of the Gefell panned hard right. The other three clips are the mid/side combination.

https://backup.filesanywhere.com/v.asp?v=%8Bpf%86%5E%60nz%B3 %A0

Randy Coppinger, Audio Craftsman

“A hammer and chisel do not a sculptor make."
- Michelangelo

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Re: Tracking a hollow body electric.. [message #359121 is a reply to message #358887 ]

Wed, 23 July 2008 17:59

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Make the guitar, player and amp do what you want, then, when you are happy with it, put a mic in front of the amp.

Fibes
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Re: Tracking a hollow body electric.. [message #359196 is a reply to message #359121 ]

Wed, 23 July 2008 23:31

danickstr is currently offline

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consider DI

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Re: Tracking a hollow body electric.. [message #359240 is a reply to message #358887 ]

Thu, 24 July 2008 07:32

tom eaton is currently offline

tom eaton
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I absolutely agree on micing the instrument regardless of how you mic the amp. The acoustic sound of the strings can be a great thing with that kind of guitar...a really nice kind of definition.

I like the figure eight idea for amp/guitar, but I would worry about phase problems myself... an omni would be my choice in that situation.

-tom

thomas eaton recording
acoustic music guy
http://www.thomaseaton.com

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Re: Tracking a hollow body electric.. [message #359272 is a reply to message #358887 ]

Thu, 24 July 2008 10:19

archtop is currently offline

archtop
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some of those old jazzers set their amps:

bass 0
mid 10
treble 0

Richard Williams

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Re: Tracking a hollow body electric.. [message #359321 is a reply to message #358887 ]

Thu, 24 July 2008 12:27

JDNelson is currently offline

JDNelson
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Wasn't that a sci-fi novel... 'I Track the Hollow Body Electric'?

My Songs are Here

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Re: Tracking a hollow body electric.. [message #359337 is a reply to message #359272 ]

Thu, 24 July 2008 13:14

Tomas Danko is currently offline

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archtop wrote on Thu, 24 July 2008 16:19

some of those old jazzers set their amps:

bass 0
mid 10
treble 0

If the tone controls are passive and before the preamp that setting actually equals an active setup post preamp where they are all at 12-o-clock.

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Re: Tracking a hollow body electric.. [message #359380 is a reply to message #359240 ]

Thu, 24 July 2008 15:59

Fibes is currently offline

Fibes
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tom eaton wrote on Thu, 24 July 2008 08:32

I absolutely agree on micing the instrument regardless of how you mic the amp. The acoustic sound of the strings can be a great thing with that kind of guitar...a really nice kind of definition.

I like the figure eight idea for amp/guitar, but I would worry about phase problems myself... an omni would be my choice in that situation.

-tom

yeah, many times when i'm after guitar acoustically with an amp involved there is most always a scenario with a mic on the amp and an omni near the guitar but in the same room as the amp too.

I tracked a 335 and a 339 last week like that.

Fibes
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"You can like it, or not like it."
http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewArtist ?id=155759887
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http://cdbaby.com/cd/superhorse2

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Re: Tracking a hollow body electric.. [message #359387 is a reply to message #358887 ]

Thu, 24 July 2008 16:35

Fletcher is currently offline

Fletcher
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Location: Foxboro, MA

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I did one a while ago when the KM-69 was still in the proto-type stage where we mic'ed the guitar with the KM-69 and took the output into an amp [I think it was an Oahu but I'm not 100% sure]... but before the signal from the guitar went to the amp it came into the control room where it was slightly compressed then run through a Littlelabs "IBP" [In Between Phase] box and then sent to the amplifier as a kinda "live re-amp" thing but I could twiddle the phase relationship between the mic and the amp sound in the control room [without affecting the tone the player heard while he was playing in the room!!].

Peace.

Fletcher
Mercenary Audio

mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33
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Re: Tracking a hollow body electric.. [message #378473 is a reply to message #358887 ]

Mon, 13 October 2008 17:11

andychamp is currently offline

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binary wrote on Wed, 23 July 2008 00:31

(...)I'm looking for something quite jazzy, rich and full bodied(...)

Closest to that Ideal I ever got was with an Epiphone archtop with a single neck HB (forgot the exact model) into a GR500NV's DI input.
API512 (1st choice) was too upfront, but the GR was just perfect.

André
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