| Siemens U47- What Was The Original Tube? [message #376793] |
Sun, 05 October 2008 17:19  |
 strangeandbouncy
Messages: 30
Registered: July 2008
Location: UK |
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Hi Guys,
I remember a serious and well known tech, now well in his seventies, telling me that stock tube in Siemens U47 was UF14, rather than VF14.
Can anyone confirm this? Does anyone have documentation? My U48 was modified eons ago to use an EF14. It is super quiet, and a joy to use, but I would love to hold a "genuine" spare tube should anything happen to the existing tube.
I figure UF14 has got to sound more "authentic". Once upon another time, I recall noting that EF14 and VF14 were actually slightly different (and not just in heater voltage/current). Something niggles me to the extent that UF14 and VF14 were much closer than EF14 and VF14.
Can anyone shed some light?
Many thanks, ANdyP
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| Re: What tube in Siemens u47? [message #376875 is a reply to message #376793 ] |
Mon, 06 October 2008 07:44  |
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Oliver Archut
Messages: 687
Registered: April 2004 |
Gold Member |
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Here is a pic of a Klangfilm audio tube.
Attachment: KL70717.JPG
(Size: 58.55KB, Downloaded 972 time(s))
Oliver Archut
www.tab-funkenwerk.com
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| Re: What tube in Siemens u47? [message #376981 is a reply to message #376978 ] |
Mon, 06 October 2008 16:53 |
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Klaus Heyne
Messages: 2193
Registered: April 2004 |
Platinum Member |
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Do you have an authentic Siemens 47 you wish to restore for sale?
If not, don't bother with the EF12. The VF14 is the proper tube to get you the authentic U47 sound. The Klangfilm/Siemens versions were specialty mics whose audio was questionable to start with.
Klaus Heyne
German Masterworks
www.GermanMasterworks.com
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| Re: What tube in Siemens u47? [message #377012 is a reply to message #376981 ] |
Mon, 06 October 2008 18:19 |
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| Oliver Archut wrote on Mon, 06 October 2008 08:38 |
The mic...Sounded a bit funky...
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| Klaus Heyne wrote on Mon, 06 October 2008 17:53 |
...mics whose audio was questionable to start with.
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But what would these guys know about the sound of a microphone?
At least the Siemens looked the part!
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| Re: What tube in Siemens u47? [message #377107 is a reply to message #376873 ] |
Tue, 07 October 2008 08:46 |
Lukas Heyer
Messages: 59
Registered: September 2005 |
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| Oliver Archut wrote on Mon, 06 October 2008 13:38 |
The few Siemens or better Klangfilm U47s that I saw, came stock with a KL70715 what is a EF12[...]
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Very interesting! What is a mystery though, according to my literature from the period, the Klangfilm designation for EF12 should be KL70715, as you state (one newer document mentions 70716 as being EF12k). But your photo clearly shows KL70717, which I can not find in the data sheets?
| Klaus Heyne wrote on Mon, 06 October 2008 22:53 |
[...]whose audio was questionable to start with.
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Could you please elaborate more?
Thanks,
Lukas
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| Re: What tube in Siemens u47? [message #377120 is a reply to message #376793 ] |
Tue, 07 October 2008 09:42 |
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Oliver Archut
Messages: 687
Registered: April 2004 |
Gold Member |
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As I said it is a picture of an Klangfilm audio tube, not the tube inside the Siemens U47.
Klangfilm had a lot of specialty tubes, the on in the picture is from my tube collection and is one of the few with a Klangfilm logo on it, made after the war.
After WWII Siemens stopped labeling tube they just repackaged it into Klangfilm cartons.
The microphone in the pic came from the RTL radio station in Luxemburg and was definitely made as an announcer mic. It did not sounded as a U47 should, nearly no low-end and with a 12.5 Ohm output, with a 50% nickel core. The combination of EF12 and transformer changed quite a bit.
In Funkschau RTT book you will find nearly all specialty Klangfilm tube codes.
Attachment: EF12k_neu.jpg
(Size: 17.09KB, Downloaded 744 time(s))
Oliver Archut
www.tab-funkenwerk.com
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| Re: Siemens U47- What Was The Original Tube? [message #377488 is a reply to message #376793 ] |
Wed, 08 October 2008 17:51 |
strangeandbouncy
Messages: 30
Registered: July 2008
Location: UK |
Member |
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Klaus,
No, I don't have a Siemens mic! Just to clarify . . .
I have an unusual short bodied mic, marked as u47/48! with a u48 head. It has an unusual history. It was mounted in the roof at Ealing Studios(film not music!), and must have been used on all the great Ealing Comedies of the 1960's. I had it converted to EF14 about 12 years ago, due to spannered VF14. It has been used nearly every single day since. It is an absolute joy to use, quiet and very very good. i know many purists will disagree, since it is not VF14, but it is vastly superior to most u47's i have used over the last 25 years. I am told that there is a difference between u47 and u48 even on cardiod. I forget the explanation, - no doubt someone will jump in! My observation is that it is more damped. Tighter and less resonant. JMHO . . . .
I have been meaning to acquire a spare EF14 to cover any eventualities for the last 12 years, watching the price going up and up. I have come across some uf14's and remembered that i was once told that uf14 was standard in Siemens uf14, which brings me back to where I STARTED!
Basically, Uf14 or Ef14 . . . . .?
Thanks to all of yous for so much information! I feel well informed now . . . .
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| Re: What tube in Siemens u47? [message #377570 is a reply to message #377120 ] |
Thu, 09 October 2008 05:26 |
Lukas Heyer
Messages: 59
Registered: September 2005 |
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Oliver, thank you for the wealth of information!
| Oliver Archut wrote on Tue, 07 October 2008 15:42 |
After WWII Siemens stopped labeling tube they just repackaged it into Klangfilm cartons.
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Yes, e.g. some later tubes I have are packed in Klagfilm box with normal Europen tube-type (ECC... / EF...) only handwritten on top. Did they have some selection process or just took Siemens / Tele tubes and packed them into KL cartons?
| Oliver Archut wrote on Tue, 07 October 2008 15:42 |
[...]was definitely made as an announcer mic. It did not sounded as a U47 should, nearly no low-end and with a 12.5 Ohm output, with a 50% nickel core. The combination of EF12 and transformer changed quite a bit.
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Very interesting! Since Klangfilm supplied not only film studios (with CMV3a and later Schoeps-made OEM mics, if I am not mistaken), but after the war also TV studios etc., the low-end roll-off probably makes sense. But still, why change the tube etc.? Do you think this was a Neumann-made OEM microphone, or built in-house by Siemens / Klangfilm from Neumann parts?
Thanks!
Lukas
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| Re: Siemens U47- What Was The Original Tube? [message #377605 is a reply to message #376793 ] |
Thu, 09 October 2008 08:58 |
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Oliver Archut
Messages: 687
Registered: April 2004 |
Gold Member |
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Hello Lucas,
before Siemens and AEG split up all their holding companies like Klangfilm and Telefunken, Telefunken made specially tubes for Klangfilm, those are the very early long life tubes their are. Every german Theater had a Klangfilm audio set up, but 80% of all german cinemas were portable that played the german (and occupied) rural areas, so that type of equipment had to be very durable and so for most prewar Telefunken tube there is a Klangfilm beefed up version. As an example, the 72406 special made for Klangfilm has a glass bulb were the glass wall is double the amount of the standard and the normally six strung filaments were double looped and spring suspended. I am not to much in single ended triodes but compared to a normal AD1 the Klangfilm version really rocks.
After Klangfilm went to Siemens and Telefunken to AEG, Klangfilm just reboxed Telefunken, or Valvo tubes.
Siemens had an extensive line of in house made and developed microphones, it is hard to tell who made the mic that I had, with no Neumann serial number it is hard to get a word from the Sennheiser guys and the Siemens archive has no information what so ever. So just keeping for what it is, a strange U47 variation.
Best regards,
Oliver Archut
www.tab-funkenwerk.com
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| Re: Siemens U47- What Was The Original Tube? [message #377770 is a reply to message #376793 ] |
Thu, 09 October 2008 16:34 |
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Well, he surely doesn't use a 50% nickel transformer, for starters...
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