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Telefunken AK-47 / M-16 MkII Capsule [message #415097]

Wed, 01 April 2009 17:21

MI
Messages: 1164
Registered: July 2005

Platinum Member

Hi Fletcher,

Is the capsule in the AK-47 and M-16 still Chinese made or was this an old description?

http://www.mercenary.com/teusarak.html

Thanks,

Mario

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Re: Telefunken AK-47 / M-16 MkII Capsule [message #415120 is a reply to message #415097 ]

Wed, 01 April 2009 19:14

compasspnt
Messages: 16052
Registered: December 2004
Location: Compass Point Studios, Na...

Diamond Member

I'm not Fletcher, and my business is not defending T-USA, but I can say in general that those particular Chinese capsules are not bad at all when coupled with a good amplifier and transformer design.

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Re: Telefunken AK-47 / M-16 MkII Capsule [message #415123 is a reply to message #415120 ]

Wed, 01 April 2009 19:29

mixwell
Messages: 263
Registered: April 2007

Active Member

Right on Terry! These are awesome mikes!!

Adam Brass
Mercenary Audio

The MEthods and Applications LABoratory

MOVE THE MICS.COM

adam@mercenary.com

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Re: Telefunken AK-47 / M-16 MkII Capsule [message #415139 is a reply to message #415097 ]

Wed, 01 April 2009 22:37

seedyunderbelly.com is currently offline

seedyunderbelly.com
Messages: 2594
Registered: May 2007
Location: LA CA

Platinum Member

But.. You can get an Apex 460 that sounds very similar for peanuts. I am sure those who want it "Built to a Standard" Will want the Upgraded Telefunken version.
j

www.evolaudio.com
www.seedyunderbelly.com

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Re: Telefunken AK-47 / M-16 MkII Capsule [message #415141 is a reply to message #415097 ]

Wed, 01 April 2009 22:59

bigbone
Messages: 1174
Registered: January 2005
Location: montreal,canada

Platinum Member

Apex 460 and T-funken M16 are FAR from ''very similar ''..... and that's from experience..........

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Re: Telefunken AK-47 / M-16 MkII Capsule [message #415143 is a reply to message #415097 ]

Wed, 01 April 2009 23:17

seedyunderbelly.com
Messages: 2594
Registered: May 2007
Location: LA CA

Platinum Member

I have heard them both also But it was not an A/B- They do have the same capsule correct? The 460 I heard had a good capsule in it. I still have access to both ..hm..

www.evolaudio.com
www.seedyunderbelly.com

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Re: Telefunken AK-47 / M-16 MkII Capsule [message #415147 is a reply to message #415097 ]

Wed, 01 April 2009 23:26

bigbone
Messages: 1174
Registered: January 2005
Location: montreal,canada

Platinum Member

Anyway that's not the original question......... back to the regular program.....

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Re: Telefunken AK-47 / M-16 MkII Capsule [message #415157 is a reply to message #415097 ]

Thu, 02 April 2009 01:11

Fletcher
Messages: 2691
Registered: April 2004
Location: München

Platinum Member

The capsule in the AK-47 mkII is different from the capsule in the M-16 mkII... the capsule in the 47 being a center terminated capsule and the capsule in the 16 being side terminated... the difference is quite palpable.

There was a time when the guys at Telefunken had rushed the "R-F-T" series mics to market and like morons sent them out before their proprietary amplifier had been developed. Yeah... it was a hell of a mistake. It also happened several years ago and from what I understand they made it right with the people who purchased the "mk I" revision.

In the "mk II" revision there is a completely new amplifier design based on some pretty damn fine output transformers. The sound between the "mk I" and "mk II" versions is night and day... as is the sound between the "Apex" and the current offerings from Telefunken.

FWIW I've found the M-16 mkII to have a more solid midrange than the AK-47 mk II [which I've found to be a bit clearer in some regards though the M-16 mkII will often have a bit more "sparkle".

The fact of the matter is that they do use capsules that are made in China... in this case it's not as much of an impediment as I've heard in other mics with Chinese capsules and amplifiers of less parts and design.

"seedyunderbelly.com"... if you can't hear enough of a difference to warrant the added expense then you're on the bargain plan. Many can hear the difference and [at least in my experience] it's not subtle... but to each their own and as always... Your Mileage May Vary.

Peace.

CN Fletcher

TELEFUNKEN Elektroakustik

mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33
We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid

"Recording engineers are an arrogant bunch.
If you've spent most of your life with a few thousand dollars worth of musicians in the studio, making a decision every second and a half... and you and they are going to have to live with it for the rest of your lives, you'll get pretty arrogant too. It takes a certain amount of balls to do that... something around three"
Malcolm Chisholm

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Re: Telefunken AK-47 / M-16 MkII Capsule [message #415164 is a reply to message #415157 ]

Thu, 02 April 2009 03:05

seedyunderbelly.com
Messages: 2594
Registered: May 2007
Location: LA CA

Platinum Member

I wish I was on the Bargain Plan-

I would probably have spent less on mics over the years-

However, I think that it is decently related to the original question that a different mic exists that:
1. Costs just over $200
2. Uses the same capsule (testing notwithstanding)
3. Has several other common components
4. Can be upgraded with a new tranny and tube and slight component changes inexpensively

I have owned both versions and while both sounded "good" for their respective prices neither "fit the bill" and I have given one away and sold the other..

I think that it is fine and good to buy a Telefunken a very good mic that was not even close to available at that price just a few short decades ago- Also I think that the "Bargain Plan" of an APEX 460 or the prospect of Upgrading one for an "enhanced version" (like the Telefunken?) Are bpth equally good investments, After having both One was cheap and over-delivered the other felt expensive and obtainable through other half priced+hassled means-

Best,

j

www.evolaudio.com
www.seedyunderbelly.com

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Re: Telefunken AK-47 / M-16 MkII Capsule [message #415174 is a reply to message #415097 ]

Thu, 02 April 2009 05:55

Fletcher
Messages: 2691
Registered: April 2004
Location: München

Platinum Member

In doing some homework... I was wrong about the capsules in the AK-47 mkII and M-16 mkII being different. Ooops. There is a new range of microphones being discussed / developed by Telefunken that will use American made capsules that will indeed be different [side vs. center termination]... the current chinese ones are indeed the same in both mics though their amplifiers are radically different.

As for the Apex being able to be "upgraded" with the replacement of the output transformer... not a possibility. There are many other differences in the amplifiers other than just the transformer so that "modification" is not possible without undertaking many other aspects of the amplifier designs.

I suppose it would be possible to "upgrade" an Apex mic somewhat with an output transformer change... but there are a whole slew of other corners that were cut in that design so while it might help... it certainly won't give you the results you can get with one of the Telefunken "R-F-T" offerings.

As always... YMMV.

Peace.

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Re: Telefunken AK-47 / M-16 MkII Capsule [message #415201 is a reply to message #415174 ]

Thu, 02 April 2009 09:28

MI
Messages: 1164
Registered: July 2005

Platinum Member

Thanks for replies.

And yes I was only asking about confirmation on where the capsule was made.

I don’t want to get into comparing those mics because it’s like comparing apples and rocks. I'm not going there.

Best,

MI

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Re: Telefunken AK-47 / M-16 MkII Capsule [message #415501 is a reply to message #415174 ]

Fri, 03 April 2009 13:02

brett
Messages: 1095
Registered: May 2004
Location: Hollywood, CA

Platinum Member

Fletcher wrote on Thu, 02 April 2009 11:55

There are numerous sites and techs, that do in fact, upgrade many other componants besides the tranny to bring the mic closer to a C12. Including putting a 5 star tube in, removing the cathode follower, as well as a peluso capsule, and various capistors and componants on the board that can be custom tailored to change the size and tone of the mic's response. In the end, a modded 460 can sound much better than a Tele because it is made to your taste and preference. And "better" is a preference. The cost to do a 460 right comes out at around $800- $900 and is a hassel to get your mic done timely in most cases. If done by you, $450 with the added risk if you're not experienced.

I am sure there are mods one could to a ak47 or mk16 to make them "better" to the end user's ears.

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Re: Telefunken AK-47 / M-16 MkII Capsule [message #415710 is a reply to message #415501 ]

Sun, 05 April 2009 01:38

J.J. Blair
Messages: 12567
Registered: May 2004
Location: by the sea & sand

Diamond Member

If Feilo is supplying the capsules, they make some great sounding capsules. They can be found in the Manley Referenece Cardioid.

Does the M16 mkII had the cathode follower circuit, as well? That would surprise me if they kept that.

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Re: Telefunken AK-47 / M-16 MkII Capsule [message #415730 is a reply to message #415710 ]

Sun, 05 April 2009 09:33

MI
Messages: 1164
Registered: July 2005

Platinum Member

J.J. Blair wrote on Sun, 05 April 2009 02:38

Hi J.J.,

No, the M-16 MkII is a different circuit. It only shares the lower mic body (metalwork) with it's predecessors.

Best,

Mario

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Re: Telefunken AK-47 / M-16 MkII Capsule [message #415843 is a reply to message #415730 ]

Mon, 06 April 2009 02:16

J.J. Blair
Messages: 12567
Registered: May 2004
Location: by the sea & sand

Diamond Member

Thought so. Knowing who redesigned the circuit, I'd be shocked if he'd left that in.

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Re: Telefunken AK-47 / M-16 MkII Capsule [message #417407 is a reply to message #415097 ]

Tue, 14 April 2009 08:30

Oliver Archut
Messages: 1331
Registered: April 2004

Platinum Member

The M16 is using a circuit as close as possible to the C12 with a AMI custom transformer, slight variation of the original C12 x-former, the Hiller style T14.
Upgrading the capsule is quite a challenge, the one that is stock in the M16 is pretty hard to beat (without breaking the bank) and if you have a NOS or used AKG CK12 you might have a point.

Best regards,

Oliver Archut
www.tab-funkenwerk.com

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