Home » R/E/P » Klaus Heyne's Mic Lab » Here we go again
| Here we go again [message #106980] |
Sat, 19 November 2005 06:27  |
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 J.J. Blair
Messages: 12567
Registered: May 2004
Location: by the sea & sand |
Diamond Member |
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414EB on eBay
I just have to wonder, if he's going to buy these mics to use the capsules for clients who want an all vintage mic, why doesn't he put one of his own capsules in it instead of the TLII, when he resells the thing on eBay? I mean, if it's an exact replica of the CK12... Sorry, but I'm confused.
studio info
They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.
"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher
"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham
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| Re: Here we go again [message #107673 is a reply to message #106980 ] |
Mon, 21 November 2005 13:36  |
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Klaus Heyne
Messages: 2942
Registered: April 2004 |
Platinum Member |
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After mulling over this and similar past threads about Toni Fishman, I've decided to:
1. delete what's already accumulated in this thread except for the first post.
2. communicate to the thread starter
1:
Please forgive me for (again) cutting into a gossipy subject, but I do not want this forum to slide into unproductive speculation and (possibly unjustified) accusations of a manufacturer.
However, I keep the thread up, because:
2:
As the originator of this thread, I am asking J.J. Blair to specify your dissatisfaction and criticism with Vintage Tones/Telefunken USA/Toni Fishman.
Please do it in a polite, constructive way, carried by personal experience, rather than dropping opaque hints about web sites, ebay auctions and posing seemingly open ended questions whose answers you may have formed already.
I will back and defend your right to stand up here for what you believe, unharmed and unhindered.
But please spell out specifically what you find objectionable about Fishman's products, service or person, or contact him privately if you genuinely want his answers. I have asked Toni Fishman to do the same, and / or post his responses here.
Just keep in mind, that as long as your attacks remain fairly global and your intentions seem not quite clear, you cannot expect Toni to respond with straight answers either.
If this thread is not going to be productive in ways I described above, I will stop it.
Now, guys, get to work, and make this forum proud!
Klaus Heyne
German Masterworks
www.GermanMasterworks.com
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| Re: Here we go again [message #107694 is a reply to message #107673 ] |
Mon, 21 November 2005 14:18 |
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J.J. Blair
Messages: 12567
Registered: May 2004
Location: by the sea & sand |
Diamond Member |
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Klaus,
First off, this thread was not a criticism of Toni. I'm asking a question. We had a thread about Toni wanting [to buy] old CK12 capsules, and we speculated as to why he wanted them.
I spoke with Toni and he told that me he was buying these capsules because some clients wanted to use them in his Tele USA products. I completely understand that, as I might do something along those lines myself in the future with my spare CK12 and a Tele USA body.
Now, the question I was asking is simply, if he is going to take the CK12 out of a 414EB, why does he use a TLII capsule and not one of the Tele USA CK12s when reselling it ?
That question, believe it or not, is not a comment on how I feel about Tele USA's product. It is simply asking "Wouldn't it make more sense to sell the mic with their version of the capsule? I don't understand this logic."
I think others have read more into it than I intended. In spite of whatever shortcomings I feel the Tele CK12 has, it must surely sound better than a TLII capsule. That is my honest opinion.
Now, since you asked, and as I have stated numerous times, the problem that I have with Tele USA is limited to the fact that Tele USA describes their CK12 as historically accurate, when certain elements of it are indeed not so.
Again, as I have said, the Tele CK12 seems to be lacking high end, and I feel this might be due to the sputtering process and gluing technique, since that is the only part of the equation I can identify as not being identical to the AKG CK12.
Toni agreed with me on this point and told me that they would like to improve those two aspects of their capsule, but have been unable to secure the assistance of people who can help them with that.
My objection, and I told him so, is the claim that the Tele CK12 is 'historically accurate' while they know that this problem exists.
I don't think that the Tele USA CK12 is a bad capsule. I just don't think it's the best replacement for an actual AKG CK12.
My sole complaint is with that specific claim asserted by the company, and that is all I am complaining about.
Tele USA obviously has many happy customers, and Toni said that he has only seen two of his mics being sold on eBay in the last five years, which should attest to the satisfaction that people have with their product.
People are reading way more into this thread than I intended. "Here we go again" was meant to indicate I was following up on Barry's original question. It meant "this is Round Two of that conversation", not "Toni is at it again" as I am thinking some people are reading it.
It's a simple question and I think that [posters] Josh and Terry may have read too much into it, which might perhaps be my own fault due to previous statements I have made.
... I've already spend too much time writing this post, when I need to be working on a mix and make a deadline. Maybe I just won't make critical statements in here anymore, because having to justify it to the forum and/or the manufacturer is proving not worth the hassle.
And BTW, I have spoken with Toni, understand his point of view, and he knows how I feel.
He has also told me that he will not participate in forums, which is regrettable, but I understand his reasoning.
On a personal level, I like and respect Toni, regardless of what ever conclusions some of you may have drawn.
I am confused by some of the business decisions that Tele USA has made, but that's a stone I probably shouldn't throw in my own glass house. I've lost plenty of money on things that seemed like a good idea at the time.
I think what Toni has attempted to do, even if I think it could be done differently or better, has been overall a good thing for the pro audio business and those of us who love microphones.
studio info
They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.
"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher
"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham
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| Re: Here we go again [message #107854 is a reply to message #106980 ] |
Mon, 21 November 2005 23:52 |
Toni Fishman
Messages: 13
Registered: November 2005
Location: Connecticut & Califor... |
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Hello PSW Group,
In a effort to clear the air I will say this. The cost to buy a TLII capsule is aprox. $250.00 if you can find one. AKG dosen't sell them and we are lucky to get a few from time to time.. Telefunken USA's in-house production of CK12 capsules is at a far greater cost per unit. We spend 4 times that cost to build one of our capsules in-house, after we figure in the reject rate. So it is not affordable for Vintagetones to put TelefunkenUSA capsules back in an old 414EB. Vintagetones, LLC. is a seperate company from that of Telefunken USA. We use this company to sell off vintage microphones we, buy, sell, trade & repair.
The 414's that Vintagetones, LLC. bought in a effort to help a long time customer build a clone of a Ela M270 microphone.
Our new production capsules are very hard for us to match pairs exactly with in 1db +/- The Ela M270 is a very difficult microphone to build. It regulary takes us 6 months to build the microphone body and amplifier, to match capsules we need to cherry pick from a batch of no less then 12 or more capsule to find a pair that are acceptable. Our customer required us to think out side the box & find a way for him to get what he wanted without the delay.
I dislike the pro audio news groups for many reasons. I feel the online threads to be full of total B.S. & SPIN more then 1/2 of the time. I admire Klaus for his devotion & professionalism to them. However, I'M NOT LIKE Klaus.
There is not but a few souls on earth that have a true idea / clarity of what it takes to do what we have done as a company in today's economy regarding microphones & historic CK12 capsule production. Telefunken USA is 100% personally funded by my self & my family. It is not a profitable business by any stretch of the imagination. If you hurt us in public we do feel it instantly.... The effect can be profound as to how it can manifests it's self. There is no outside help here, no larger holding company to infuse us with additional funding.
To get it out there loud and clear... I do it for the love of it... Ask anyone who knows me. I have dedicated my life to the idea / faith that the inside & outside of our microphones are 100% historically accurate. The sound recorded with them is on the same par as originals. Again, I do not do it for the money... If I wanted big money why the heck would I get involved in the music business?
"I dare anyone to come to the table if they think they can do a better job then us. They would be welcome to anti up, kick in & put there money where there mouth is so to speak." We would love the help!
We are young and have many lessons to learn as a company. I never claimed that I know everything about microphones or the microphone business. I can tell you from my experiences along the way I have learned a bit more then most... I don't have a crystal ball and I can't see the future. There have been many set backs this year and I'm not able to discuss them here. The competion is relentless and this makes it all the more difficult to get the job done.
We are not connected to the original Telefunken of Germany in any way. I bought the Telefunken trademark that had been abandon & neglected in the USA and believed that I could bring "it" back faithfully here in the USA.
I don't like politics and defiantly do not agree with the witch hunt mentality found in most of the news groups. We have never stopped the production & research of our CK12 capsules and we never will. Will always be trying to improve our results & I can promise you that no matter what.
I'll tell you a few things about me just so you all know where I'm coming from. I have no formal training. I didn't go to College. I'm very dyslexic. I barely made it thru high school. If not for the audio production classes in high school, I may have never known what a microphones was. I hate typing and would have preferred to have this conversation on the telephone with all of you. I play the Guitar and I enjoy working in and around recording studios.
Lastly, I do have an unstoppable passion for the best sounding microphones on earth. I will die trying to build them & hopefully use them for there intended purpose. to promote good vibrations on a global level so that many people may one day hear a song and feel inspired to create there own music, art. Even better find a cure for pain or stop the war.
Most of you have no idea of of the level of service we were trying to offer our clients & customers. I feel half the time people are just upset we can't sell them mics any cheaper. If I could I would but I can't not unless we get the help of a much larger company. I have tried to talk with AKG & Neumann and we have never reached any type of acceptable agreement.
Back to the beginning for those of you who don't care to hear my dribble. The capsules we were acquiring were on the behalf of Mike Clark of Southern Tracks. Again, we were customizing a Telefunken Ela M270 for him at his personal request. We needed to find a few capsules to match up for him very swiftly. He has been waiting for several months for a matched pair of new capsules, I offered him the option of vintage capsules because we share the same regard for vintage equipment & that is all that was going on ever.
I'm so disgusted that I feel forced to post private details to justify our reasoning.
I'm at a complete loss and am very tired of having people nearly crash the company because they can't find a way to pick up the phone and call me if they have a question..
I DO NOT WISH TO SEE THIS POSTED ON ANY OTHER FOURMS ANYWHERE EVER.
Kind Regards,
Toni Fishman, CEO.
Telefunken USA, LLC.
300 Pleasant Valley Road
Suite (E)
South Windsor, Connecticut 06074 USA
www.telefunkenusa.com
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This post / transmission, e-mail address and any documents, files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged.If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender. Please destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading or saving in
any manner. Thank you.
Attachment: 13917037.jpg
(Size: 157.37KB, Downloaded 289 time(s))
Kind Regards,
Toni Fishman, CEO.
Telefunken USA, LLC.
300 Pleasant Valley Road
Suite (E)
South Windsor, Connecticut 06074 USA
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| Re: Here we go again [message #107890 is a reply to message #107854 ] |
Tue, 22 November 2005 13:00 |
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J.J. Blair
Messages: 12567
Registered: May 2004
Location: by the sea & sand |
Diamond Member |
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Thanks for answering and posting, Toni. That answers my question. The Tele CK12 costs that much more to make. That makes complete sense. I had no idea that the capsule was that expensive for you guys to make, as I was basing my estimate of the retail of similar capsules from companies like Blue and MBHO.
It's nice to see you in here finally, however I think it's an overreaction to say that a rhetorical question like this is going to crash the company. You are a public figure in the audio world and a well known presence among eBayers. Whether you like it or not (and I know you obviously don't), things you do are valid topics of discussion and/or criticism.
I'm sorry you detest these questions being posted in forums, but the truth is when I'm checking eBay on a five minute break during a tracking session, phoning you is out of the question. I suppose I could have sent you an e-mail with the question rather than post it in here, but out of habit I bring these questions in here. I did not foresee some of the misinterpretation that occurred as a result, which makes my choice seem ill advised, in hindsight.
I'm not trying to tear Tele USA down, and as I have said, any criticisms I have of the company serve to encourage you guys to make a better product. As I have also said before, vague statements from mic endorsers saying "The 251 is everything I hoped it would be" seem like the equivalent of pissing on your back and telling you it's raining. The difference though is that when we discuss the shortcomings of Sennheiser/Neumann and Harman/AKG, they are unlikely to do anything about it. You should look at people discussing the shortcomings of your product as an opportunity, because YOU HAVE THE ABILITY TO ADDRESS IT! There's no bean counters telling you it's impossible or whatever the hell is wrong with those other companies.
When I finish a mix or whatever, I don't only listen to the people who like it. I listen to the critical opinions and then ask myself if they are right and if perhaps the vocal should be louder, or whatever it is. As a manufacturer, it is your responsibilty to pay attention to criticisms. It is also wise to notice the general reputation the company has, even in internet forums, and ask yourself honestly, "Do my actions or my product truly warrant this? Should I change something we are doing to change this opinion rather than making phonecalls and trying to change people's minds?" Why it is that you in particular are a lightning rod for discussion is a conclusion that you alone have to come to terms with. You leave a wide footprint in pro audio and on eBay, and if you choose to have a high profile, it might be a good idea to get used to this type of thing.
studio info
They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.
"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher
"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham
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| Re: Here we go again [message #107975 is a reply to message #106980 ] |
Tue, 22 November 2005 17:34 |
Toni Fishman
Messages: 13
Registered: November 2005
Location: Connecticut & Califor... |
Member |
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Hi Mike,
sorry but you are incorrect. VINTAGETONES, LLC. is a seprate companey from that of TelefunkenUSA..... The mics in question we being sold by Vintagetones & not TeleUSA....
Kind Regards,
Toni Fishman, CEO.
Telefunken USA, LLC.
300 Pleasant Valley Road
Suite (E)
South Windsor, Connecticut 06074 USA
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 Re: Here we go again [message #108012 is a reply to message #107890 ] |
Tue, 22 November 2005 19:30 |
Toni Fishman
Messages: 13
Registered: November 2005
Location: Connecticut & Califor... |
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Dearest J.J. -
Sorry to ask you to come out of your session to call me. I'm a busy man as well. As to any attention & comments you have brought up regarding our capsule manufacturing techniques, we can assure you that we suffer from the same struggles that AKG did back in the day. The battle today is the same old fight. The fact is building historic CK12's capsules is not easy task. Gluing, Aging, Assembling, Handling & doing it multiple times is even harder. The larger your production the more it costs to produce & a higher % of failure per unit is par for the course.
Telefunken USA can produce approximately 200 good capsules a year. The current reject rate is 50% so we accualy build a total of 400 units. 50% of that is waste...... If we try to manufacture more capsules then that we will never be able to achieve the same quality.
AKG spent much time refining there own techniques along the way. There were 6 to 9 different versions attempted and sold by AKG over a decade in sales to customers all over the world. As far as we know AKG's production was only about 65% larger than ours. More like 1000 capsule a year back in the hay day... Our estimate is roughly 10,000 AKG CK 12's were ever produced & there were changes every 2000 units or so..... Constant tweaking & making refinements along the way was the way to get the job done.
We ask Klaus to chime in and correct us if he feels that we are off the mark. Building a consistant yearly production of capsules is a work in progress and it takes a close team of people to do it correctly.
Please J.J. if you can't back up your findings don't post them! The jist of your post was to try and bring attention to our manufacturing technique. May I remind you that this is a proprietary recipe that we will not disscuss in public.
We can back up all our findings, Some of AKG's capsule changes we have documented & found materals, thickness, both of resinator, backplate, diaphram are some of the things that changed slightly over the years.
Telefunken USA's hope is to increase our capsule production volume to 500 capsules per year. We hope in 2006 we can grow to see this level in the new year. I hope we have cleared the air and if anyone has any further questions please feel free to call me directly. We prefer a quick call then making posts like this.
Kind Regards,
Toni Fishman, CEO.
Telefunken USA, LLC.
300 Pleasant Valley Road
Suite (E)
South Windsor, Connecticut 06074 USA
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| Re: Here we go again [message #108044 is a reply to message #108012 ] |
Tue, 22 November 2005 21:23 |
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J.J. Blair
Messages: 12567
Registered: May 2004
Location: by the sea & sand |
Diamond Member |
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Toni, just to clarify, I discussed with you what I observed with the gold sputtering and the gluing.
If you send me a capsule, I'd be happy to take it to a lab that can do microscopic photography and post pictures displaying the differences that I have observed.
Besides, I thought that you had admitted as much to me that the AKG sputtering and gluing process was eluding Tele USA. I don't think I misunderstood you, because you said that you would appreciate the cooperation of anybody who can help you in this endeavor.
Like I said though, with your cooperation, I'd be more than happy to demonstrate my findings. Regardless of proprietary techniques, what I observed were substantial physical differences in these two respects I mentioned.
... I have one NOS CK12 as well as the four in my 414EBs, and I'd be happy to compare all of them against any number of randomly selected Tele CK12s on an acoustic and physical analysis. As I have posted several mic shootouts online in one of the other forums. I'd be happy to post digital photos and soundfiles and let people draw their own conclusions. Klaus has very strict ground rules here, and I have tried to refrain from any conjecture or observations that I have not personally made.
studio info
They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.
"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher
"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham
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| Re: Here we go again [message #108067 is a reply to message #108044 ] |
Wed, 23 November 2005 00:00 |
tuchel
Messages: 138
Registered: December 2004
Location: Los Angeles |
Active Member |
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Due to a glitch, my comments of 2 days ago were lost. Most of them are pointless now, but let me add a observation of two.
Though I feel microphones and their use is endlessly fascinating, I realize this view lies within a very very small segment of the overall population. The overall population is responsible for sales in the top 100 records every week, just to further distinguish those who love audio from those who think they do.
For perspective Toni:
-Putting one's butt on the line for what you think is another distinguishing characteristic of those who spend time here, it's not unique to microphone manufacturers.
-I did really crappy in math, and didn't continue with football after my freshman year for lack of talent. I could go on with other shortcomings I have, but I want to keep this under 10,000 words.
Plunking down thousands of dollars for a microphone is a big deal.
The bigness varies with the circumstances we each situate in, but I think big covers it.
Tele USA; honestly, we all want to believe we can get a 251 that sounds like an old one. We all want it to be true. And we're gonna talk about it whether a manufacturer wants us to, or not.
What I was wondering Toni, was if you had thought to run some capsules by the guys who routinely fix capsules?
I assume many here wonder like I do, if you've gotten exact duplication going, how far away can you be from getting the CK12 sound to your liking. It as if you've gotten the mic to the red zone, and just need a tweak to perfect it. This seems like an obvious direction, and more focused on the future of your company than to cannibalize a limited capsule pool. Frankly, I'd like to have a few early 414's around when that sound is appropriate.
But that's me.
Earlier, in the deleted post, I mentioned a conversation with an AKG employee who told me they "can't make the CK12 again". I asked did they mean can't make the price point or can't manufacture it at all. They just repeated "can't make the CK12 again". So this indicates, you don't have an easy task at hand.
(Here I will add my usual overused comment about the 4 or 5 CK12's I've owned over the years, and how different they sounded from one another).
(That's usually followed by my comment about how many capsules have been modified or repaired by Stephen Paul & Company, and how few people in this smallish community really complained about that capsule work, or consider those "less than" CK12 quality.)
And let me add that the recreations you've made are gorgeous, most of us get a little thrill checking them out, and look forward to the day when it will make sense to buy one. We hope you have a business plan that allows you the time and resources to succeed. Or maybe you already have.
Terry Sampson
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| Re: Here we go again [message #108073 is a reply to message #108044 ] |
Wed, 23 November 2005 00:41 |
Toni Fishman
Messages: 13
Registered: November 2005
Location: Connecticut & Califor... |
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I Hope this color quote idea works / I hope the colors change works with my poor html skills??
JJ / Q Toni, just to clarify, I discussed with you what I observed with the gold sputtering and the gluing.
TF / A I do not think you observed one of our production capsules. If so what was its capsule number?
JJ / Q If you send me a capsule, I'd be happy to take it to a lab that can do microscopic photography and post pictures displaying the differences that I have observed.
TF / A How about you send us $7500.00 and we will let you have one platinum capsule out of our current production..that way we wont loose a sale.. also J.J. we have customers who want finished microphones and our customer have not complained ever. Our responsibility is to them 1st.
TF > Why don't you go back under the rock you crawled out of and stop this B.S. who are you working for any how? I smell a rat!
TF / A Do you know which version of the vintage CK12 capsule do you have? AGAIN There were several different versions. The amount of gold and the type of glue changed over AKG's production run. The capsule we took our data from could have been slightly different from yours.
JJ / Q Besides, I thought that you had admitted as much to me that the AKG sputtering and gluing process was eluding Tele USA.
TF / A Are you out of your mind.......? I never said anything like that. All I said is there are different opinions as to how they did it back in the day. What TelefunkenUSA has come up with is as close as we can get to the spirit of how it was done back in the day. Our method is producing excellent results. If you hear any different tone in our new capsule it is due to the difference in age and how we modeled our bench mark in relation to your unknown capsule version.
jj /Q I don't think I misunderstood you, because you said that you would appreciate the cooperation of anybody who can help you in this endeavor.
TF/A Yes you did misunderstand me. All I said is we would like to improve our yield of passing capsules to one better then 50% We would love to have help to make 100% of our production result in passing capsules.
jj/ A Like I said though, with your cooperation, I'd be more than happy to demonstrate my findings. Regardless of proprietary techniques, what I observed were substantial physical differences in these two respects I mentioned.
TF / A ----- Frankly I think you are in no way qualified to comment on any issue regarding capsule building. I also feel your findings are so off the mark it's very sad. Go back to your studio and rub your mics together because all you are doing is speculating & wasting my and everyone Else's time. All you are doing is trying to draw attention to your self in quite the same fasion as Dan Richards did with the dribble on his site.... You two should get to gether and hang out. Seem like you two are made for each other. So go put that in you pipe and smoke it. Please don't post again if you can't tell us all exactly how it's done? After all you are inferring that you know how it should be done and our method is not in spec. We believe that the CK12 skinning art was lost a long time ago and if anyone is doing it in the Spirit of how it's done it's us today.
Kind Regards,
Toni Fishman, CEO.
Telefunken USA, LLC.
300 Pleasant Valley Road
Suite (E)
South Windsor, Connecticut 06074 USA
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| Re: Here we go again [message #108082 is a reply to message #106980 ] |
Wed, 23 November 2005 01:29 |
Dale Ulan
Messages: 120
Registered: April 2005
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada |
Active Member |
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If anything else, I'm impressed that you get 50%. I get at least 35 or 40% falling out because of gross assembly failures - mostly a bad glue job that upsets the diaphragm tension and/or clearances. And I only build maybe 20 or 30 capsules in a year. Strange hobby, I know.
Dale Ulan
10000 Cows Recording Studio
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
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| Re: Here we go again [message #108091 is a reply to message #108082 ] |
Wed, 23 November 2005 02:05 |
Toni Fishman
Messages: 13
Registered: November 2005
Location: Connecticut & Califor... |
Member |
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Hi Dale,
Right on... It is a huge undertaking. hu? I'm very impressed I've seen your site before. I would say you are one of the few people who knows what it takes. I'm glad that you share the same findings we did in the beginning of our production. It took 3 years to get this kind of success in production. I wish JJ had a clue about what he was talking about? Seems he's a good reviewer and can express him self very well in print. I think he should stick to writing and not try to figure out how to build capsules or question mfg. methods used.
Here are a few good questions to ask the historians?
Q What technique do you think AKG used circa 1958 to ping a diaphragm to find its resonate frequency?
Q Do you think today's technogy is any better then in 1958 to do this?
Q How about the jigs to tension and glue? Should they be the same or refined with today's modern technology?
All of this is fun to think about...... In a Parrnell universe I wish I could try it both ways....
Kind Regards,
Toni Fishman, CEO.
Telefunken USA, LLC.
300 Pleasant Valley Road
Suite (E)
South Windsor, Connecticut 06074 USA
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| Re: Here we go again [message #108094 is a reply to message #108091 ] |
Wed, 23 November 2005 02:53 |
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J.J. Blair
Messages: 12567
Registered: May 2004
Location: by the sea & sand |
Diamond Member |
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Toni, I'm sorry you feel the need to resort to vitriol. However, I will tell you what I observed: Under magnification, the Tele USA capsule's gold had a crystalline structure, unlike the AKG, which appeared smooth. Also, under magnification, the edges on the Tele USA capsule were sloppily glued. As I said, if you send me a capsule, I will post microscopic pictures of this and it won't matter what I know or don't know about mics. People can draw their own conclusion by looking and comparing for themselves.
However, since you won't participate, I tell you what: When I get back from my vacation on Sunday, I have a solid week of tracking and mixing. At the end of that week, I am going to rent two Tele USA 251s and do the microscopic photos of the capsules without your assistance, since you are unwilling to offer it and participate, even though you have called me out and asked to back up my findings. Unfortunately, because I will be renting mics, I will be unable to remove the capsule and let people hear the difference between your capsule and my 5 different AKG CK12s of varying vintages. If you are confident that you have your sputtering technique and gluing techniques stone cold, then there should be nothing to worry about. I'll reiterate, what I know about the tension jigs or pinging technique is irrelevant when observing the physical structure. All you need is two eyes.
If I were a manufacturer, I would want to know the answer to these questions. I told you exactly what my observations were on the phone, and you did not once dispute the accuracy of what I saw. In fact, you went on about how techniques changed over the years, which did not address the question I posed, which was that a crystalline structure of the gold and sloppy glue overrun on the membrane will result in capsule behaving differently from an AKG made capsule. I am aware that the backplate design and tension rings changed over time, however, please show me an example of AKG sputtering and gluing that resembles yours in the way I described.
In another forum, there was a claim that a certain format had low end loss compared to another format. Representatives from that company jumped at the chance to participate in a shootout. I'm sorry you don't have the same spirit of adventure. But since I won't have my voracity called into question, and I can't give you serial numbers without involving third parties that I don't want to drag into this, I will rent the mics. If I'm wrong, and I can't find the same issues I have described, then I will issue a full apology. Fair enough?
studio info
They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.
"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher
"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham
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| Re: Here we go again [message #108095 is a reply to message #108082 ] |
Wed, 23 November 2005 03:20 |
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J.J. Blair
Messages: 12567
Registered: May 2004
Location: by the sea & sand |
Diamond Member |
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> Why don't you go back under the rock you crawled out of and stop this B.S. who are you working for any how? I smell a rat!
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Well, I won't retaliate to the insult ... it's so tempting though, since I happen to know so much. But, in respect to Klaus, I will keep things civil. Regardless, I work for me. Your nose is deceiving you. However, anybody I won't discourage anybody who finds my opinions helpful from sending me some money for trying to bring things to light!
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TF / A ----- Frankly I think you are in no way qualified to comment on any issue regarding capsule building. I also feel your findings are so off the mark it's very sad.
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As I said, you only need eyes to observe what I have seen. You are apparently uninterested in that. I am merely questioning the process by viewing that the result is wrong. If I ask the paint manufacturer to make a certain color for me, and they give me the wrong color, I don't neeed to be an expert in knowing the process of making the paint to observe that it is different from the sample I asked them to copy. How you are missing that obvious point is baffling to me.
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Go back to your studio and rub your mics together because all you are doing is speculating & wasting my and everyone Else's time. All you are doing is trying to draw attention to your self in quite the same fasion as Dan Richards did with the dribble on his site.... You two should get to gether and hang out. Seem like you two are made for each other. So go put that in you pipe and smoke it.
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Is Dan Richards the guy who correctly identified the M16 as being identical to the Apex? Because he actually broke news that is of vast interest to all of us who buy mics, he is simply trying to draw attention to himself? I'm wasting everybody's time by expressing an opinion in a forum that encourages discussion? I don't know why you are so interested in stifling discussion, by e-mailing or calling some of us and asking us to remove our posts. It makes people think you have something to hide.
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Please don't post again if you can't tell us all exactly how it's done? After all you are inferring that you know how it should be done and our method is not in spec. We believe that the CK12 skinning art was lost a long time ago and if anyone is doing it in the Spirit of how it's done it's us today.
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Scroll up and read my paint analogy again. And as I said in my previous post, in order to vindicate myself, I'll spend the money and post my results in a few weeks.
studio info
They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.
"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher
"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham
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