| "Discrete Sound from an IC Op-amp" [message #184309] |
Thu, 07 September 2006 07:48  |
 JGreenslade
Messages: 761
Registered: April 2004
Location: UK |
Gold Member |
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http://www.profusionplc.com/
What say you? Is this the breakthrough THAT claim it to be?
Regards,
Justin
Audio is a vocational affliction
"there is no "homeopathic" effect in bits and bytes." - HansP
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| Re: "Discrete Sound from an IC Op-amp" [message #184331 is a reply to message #184309 ] |
Thu, 07 September 2006 09:31  |
Jim Williams
Messages: 462
Registered: May 2005
Location: beautiful carlsbad, CA |
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More marketing hoopla to sell new semiconductors. They don't discuss MO resistors that are sonically poor compared to discretes. These parts sound ok, but the SSM2019 is sonically clearer with less hf hype. Most of the time the discrete opamps have far less open loop gain, higher THD, lower bandwidth and these "errors" are what most audio folks are enamored with. A great opamp coupled with very good discrete transistors can beat this chip sonically and on the Audio Precision. Not too hard to do. Put it all in an 8 pin dip and it's very hard to do.
This is more to do about cost/convenience than quality.
Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades
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| Re: "Discrete Sound from an IC Op-amp" [message #184609 is a reply to message #184309 ] |
Fri, 08 September 2006 09:40 |
Jim Williams
Messages: 462
Registered: May 2005
Location: beautiful carlsbad, CA |
Active Member |
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Yes, one customer has the D.A.V. BG-1 preamp which uses a BurrBrown INA217. I installed a socket and the owner can play as he has all three of the top contenders at his disposal. He reported that the Burrbrown part is the poorest performer while the that1510 has a bit of top end hype and the AD SSM2019 is the most natural of the three. I didn't get a chance to deep test it with the Audio Precision but they do test more alike than not with simple THD+noise tests.
BTW, trench isolation has been around a long time, it's used on FET input opamps as the FET transistors need to be overlayed to the silicon substrate as the bipolar process won't do FET transistors. Look to the BurrBrown OPA627 for an example.
Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades
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| Re: "Discrete Sound from an IC Op-amp" [message #188884 is a reply to message #187413 ] |
Wed, 27 September 2006 09:36 |
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Schallfeldnebel
Messages: 589
Registered: October 2004
Location: Europe |
Gold Member |
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I have done several listening tests comparing the THAT 1510 with the INA 217 opamp, and have to conclude that the differences are very low, and if I have to choose I would prefer the THAT 1510.
I did not hear anything of a high frequency hype as was stated earlier in this thread; IMHO there is a lower distortion in the higher midrange from the THAT 1510, which opens up that part a bit, which make the top end seem to be sharper, but this certainly does not cause a hype in the higher tonal band.
On very dynamic vocal material it seems to be the THAT 1510 handles that better, the INA 217 leaves you with some kind of pressure on the ears.
The SSM 2019 I have not heard, on paper this one has the highest distortion compared to the others. Maybe higher distortion in the low end makes it sound more warm.
Please any opinions are welcome.
Erik Sikkema
Sound of the Month, Steinway, Het Concertgebouw Amsterdam:
http://webzoom.freewebs.com/eriksikkema/Steinway.mp3
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| Re: "Discrete Sound from an IC Op-amp" [message #191988 is a reply to message #188884 ] |
Wed, 11 October 2006 15:12 |
danlavry
Messages: 997
Registered: April 2004 |
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| Schallfeldwebel wrote on Wed, 27 September 2006 15:36 |
I have done several listening tests comparing the THAT 1510 with the INA 217 opamp, and have to conclude that the differences are very low, and if I have to choose I would prefer the THAT 1510.
I did not hear anything of a high frequency hype as was stated earlier in this thread; IMHO there is a lower distortion in the higher midrange from the THAT 1510, which opens up that part a bit, which make the top end seem to be sharper, but this certainly does not cause a hype in the higher tonal band.
On very dynamic vocal material it seems to be the THAT 1510 handles that better, the INA 217 leaves you with some kind of pressure on the ears.
The SSM 2019 I have not heard, on paper this one has the highest distortion compared to the others. Maybe higher distortion in the low end makes it sound more warm.
Please any opinions are welcome.
Erik Sikkema
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All of those devices are "special purpose" in the sense that they yield lower noise (input referred noise) at higher gains, but as you lower the gain, the noise grows way above levels of very noisy opamps. The reason for that is in the internal circuitry of those INA218 SSM2017 and THAT 1510, they have a pair of input transistors, and part of the gain control calls for running different amount of collector current (the more gain, the higher the current), therefore at high gain the noise goes down. But when you use such a device at unity gain (or very low gain), the noise is very high!
One can argue, and somewhat properly, that we need lower noise at high gains, and we can "live with" higher noise at low gains, when the signal is already high. This argument is good to a point. For example, I would not use such devices in a fixed low gain applications. I would consider such devices for high gain applications.
Regards
Dan Lavry
http://www.lavryengineering.com
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| Re: "Discrete Sound from an IC Op-amp" [message #194818 is a reply to message #191988 ] |
Thu, 26 October 2006 10:41 |
berniechap
Messages: 1
Registered: October 2006 |
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Hi.
I am an amateur, doing non-professional recordings of our choir concertos. The microphone preamp of my mobile Sony DAT Recorder TCD 7 is quite noisy. So I am considering to build my own battery-operated stereo preamp on the basis of two THAT 1510. I don't need phantom supply as I use dynamic microphones. I would like to use the preamps also for recordings with my MP3 player/recorder which only has a line level stereo input (3.5 mm).
Does anybody know if there is a kit available where you can use the THAT 1510? Where can I buy it? Or do I have do design it myself?
Or do I have to by a ready-made product, probably at a price that is too high for my amateur-level recordings? Which battery-operated micro preamp would you recommend then?
Regards,
berniechap
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