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Recording Fiddle/Violin [message #208028]

Sat, 23 December 2006 05:32

rwj1313 is currently offline

rwj1313
Messages: 545
Registered: May 2004
Location: South East

Gold Member

Hey guys,

A friend of mine and his uncle have been wanting to record some bluegrass stuff they have done. What types of microphones are best for recording fiddle? What microphone positioning do you guys like to use? Any tips would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Rick

If you think you're finished at the dance, you are quitting too soon. William Wittman

you need the fat to protect the stomach lining against alcohol, and the alcohol to cut through the fat in the bloodstream so, it's beer & doughnuts for me. Maxim

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Re: Recording Fiddle/Violin [message #208053 is a reply to message #208028 ]

Sat, 23 December 2006 12:23

rollmottle
Messages: 1240
Registered: May 2005
Location: New York, NY

Platinum Member

on our record our violinist was recorded with a stereo pair of Neumann KM185s - that turned out kind of harsh and toppy. the best result was in overdubs with a Beyer M160. very mellow and natural. both placements were in front of the violinist and about 2 to 3 feet above the violinist pointed around the f holes adjusting for best balance of violin & bow/string noise.

SENTRALL Sound East
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Re: Recording Fiddle/Violin [message #208064 is a reply to message #208028 ]

Sat, 23 December 2006 13:10

Jim Frazier is currently offline

Jim Frazier
Messages: 309
Registered: April 2004
Location: Nashville

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I have used a KM184 with decent results over the past 10 years or so, although depending on placement, it can get a little "edgy", or "harsh".

I bought a Royer R-122 ribbon mic last year, and have only used it on "fiddle" once (and I live in Nashville!). But it was by far a more pleasing sound then the small diaphragm condenser.

Placement is roughly where rollmottle said he placed his. Do get a few feet up above the instrument. The "air" space there is needed for a natural sound, IMO.

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Re: Recording Fiddle/Violin [message #208070 is a reply to message #208028 ]

Sat, 23 December 2006 13:50

tom eaton is currently offline

tom eaton
Messages: 3511
Registered: May 2004
Location: Newburyport, MA

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I feel like this discussion happened here not too long ago...

I like a ribbon up in front (2 feet at least over) the fiddle pointing down plus an "over the shoulder" mic of some kind, usually in my case an AT4051 or Earthworks, sometimes a KSM32. the ribbon gets the bulk of the tone, but some players like to hear more zing on top which the second mic adds nicely. It's usually two feet above and just slightly behind the player's right shoulder pointing at the bridge.

It's pretty hard to go wrong with a decent ribbon on a decent fiddle...

-tom

thomas eaton recording / universal noise storage
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Re: Recording Fiddle/Violin [message #208101 is a reply to message #208070 ]

Sat, 23 December 2006 17:46

greg bates is currently offline

greg bates
Messages: 98
Registered: July 2005

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This was a U87 and a km184. He moved quite a bit during the recording. I ended up using more of the u87. It was to loud around 2.7k.

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"Two Generations of Americans knew more about the inner workings of a Model T coil than the clitoris." John Steinbeck 1945 - Cannery Row

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Re: Recording Fiddle/Violin [message #208110 is a reply to message #208028 ]

Sat, 23 December 2006 19:14

tom eaton is currently offline

tom eaton
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Registered: May 2004
Location: Newburyport, MA

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I hope those walls are softer than they look... one surefire way to get a nastier fiddle sound is to put the durn thing in a hard/bright room.

That particular mic setup looks a bit like phase hell... were you going for a blend of the two mics or simply taking two "sounds"?

-t

thomas eaton recording / universal noise storage
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Re: Recording Fiddle/Violin [message #208118 is a reply to message #208110 ]

Sat, 23 December 2006 21:08

maarvold is currently offline

maarvold
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Registered: April 2004
Location: Simi Valley, CA

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The player's fiddle will play a MAJOR role in how well you do with the results. Gary Paczosa used a Shure SM-81 in an Allison Krause DVD I own and she sounds great. I had the chance to 'test drive' that mic on bluegrass fiddle last year and LOVED it. Another great string mic is Sennheiser MKH40 (or MKH80 or MKH800)--flat frequency response and totally natural, all at the same time. I've also used KM-84 a lot and KM84 in combination with Coles 4038 (ribbon). I would suggest keeping the diaphragms of any combination of mics as close together as possible to avoid intermodulation distortion and comb filtering.

Michael Aarvold
Audio Engineer

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Re: Recording Fiddle/Violin [message #208124 is a reply to message #208101 ]

Sat, 23 December 2006 23:01

Bodoc is currently offline

Bodoc
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Registered: February 2005
Location: Montauk. NY

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If things are sounding thin, try Kel HM-1's. Inexpensive, fabulous.

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Re: Recording Fiddle/Violin [message #208159 is a reply to message #208028 ]

Sun, 24 December 2006 09:03

hallboy is currently offline

hallboy
Messages: 1
Registered: December 2006
Location: Nashville Tn

Welcome

Hey this is my first post. I have been lurking for a while and I saw this post and thought i would reply. I did3 bluegrass records this year and 1 is up for a Grammy. The one that I am most proud of, Is by a guy named Jim Vancleve (www.jimvancleve.com). He is the fiddle player for a band called Mountain Heart. I used a Swedish Mic called aThuresson CM402. I think it is the best instrument mic I have ever used. (full disclosure, I am repping this mic in the states because the designers are friends of mine). In my opinion this microphone is a cross between a B+K and a Neumann KM-54. The clarity of the B+K and the warmth of the KM-54. The signal flow for the mic was Thuresson to a modified Mastering Lab mic Pre to a Avalon eq to an LA-2A to an Apogee AD converter to Pro tools. go to his web site and listen to a few outtakes. Bottom line... I think the sound is really an extension of the instrument and the fingers playing.

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Re: Recording Fiddle/Violin [message #208168 is a reply to message #208028 ]

Sun, 24 December 2006 09:57

Han S. is currently offline

Han S.
Messages: 205
Registered: April 2004
Location: Netherlands

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Another vote for the M160, for this is one of the brighter sounding ribbons but very smooth.

I dunno if you're recording in an overdub or a band recording situation, but the M160 (and M260) is very rejective and therefore one of the best mics for this application.

I've recorded hand percussion like shakers and eggs, while the player was standing between the drummer and the guitarist, no problemo.

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Re: Recording Fiddle/Violin [message #208385 is a reply to message #208028 ]

Mon, 25 December 2006 22:30

wwittman is currently offline

wwittman
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Registered: May 2004
Location: New York

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In almost every situation, I would be at LEAST 4 feet further away with the mic than in those pictures.

the harshness comes from the fact that the instrument was never designed to be heard from that close.

William Wittman
Producer/Engineer
(Cyndi Lauper, Joan Osborne, The Fixx, The Outfield, Hooters...)

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Re: Recording Fiddle/Violin [message #208446 is a reply to message #208028 ]

Tue, 26 December 2006 11:19

compasspnt is currently offline

compasspnt
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Also, as seen in the 87 photo (and in addition to the other potential phase problems), there is absolutely no benefit in using the pop filter. Only bad things could result.

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Re: Recording Fiddle/Violin [message #208448 is a reply to message #208446 ]

Tue, 26 December 2006 11:25

rnicklaus
Messages: 3859
Registered: May 2004
Location: Left Coast

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compasspnt wrote on Tue, 26 December 2006 09:19

Also, as seen in the 87 photo (and in addition to the other potential phase problems), there is absolutely no benefit in using the pop filter. Only bad things could result.

Unless of course you are recording "pop" music....

I did a couple of albums with fiddle player Richard Greene that I thought sounded pretty good.

On both I used a U47. Different studios on each album and different U47s.

Everyone seemed very happy with the sound.

I agree the mic can't be too close.

R.N.

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Re: Recording Fiddle/Violin [message #208455 is a reply to message #208448 ]

Tue, 26 December 2006 11:46

Version is currently offline

Version
Messages: 845
Registered: September 2005
Location: Berkeley

Gold Member

Las time I did one in front facing down to the player and one behind the player, 90 degree axis change from the first with the phase flipped. On the front I think I used that Lawson 47 ripoff and I don't remember the rear. I think I was trying to capture some of the "wood" with the rear mic. The room and player were so good, though, that I could have put a fisher price mic up and the recording would have been just as engaging.

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Re: Recording Fiddle/Violin [message #208618 is a reply to message #208446 ]

Wed, 27 December 2006 13:33

CWHumphrey is currently offline

CWHumphrey
Messages: 845
Registered: August 2004
Location: Los Angeles

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compasspnt wrote on Tue, 26 December 2006 09:19

Also, as seen in the 87 photo (and in addition to the other potential phase problems), there is absolutely no benefit in using the pop filter. Only bad things could result.

But then how do you get rid of the popping P's?

Cheers,

Carter William Humphrey

"Indeed...oh three named one!" -Terry Manning
"Or you can just have Carter do the recording, because he's Humphrey."-J.J. Blair

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Re: Recording Fiddle/Violin [message #208621 is a reply to message #208618 ]

Wed, 27 December 2006 13:41

CWHumphrey is currently offline

CWHumphrey
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Registered: August 2004
Location: Los Angeles

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Randy, you beat me to the joke--and yours is better.

Great mention about the U47. I'm currently involved in a project that we used mainly U67's on the violin and viola.

Cheers,

Carter William Humphrey

"Indeed...oh three named one!" -Terry Manning
"Or you can just have Carter do the recording, because he's Humphrey."-J.J. Blair

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