| How to get that ultra-transparent acoustic sound? [message #210132] |
Thu, 04 January 2007 10:15  |
satasha
Messages: 2
Registered: June 2006 |
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I posted this question over at gearslutz and I am posting it a few other places in hopes of getting more comprehensive answers. So if you have already seen it, I apologize.
Sometimes the acoustic guitar is so transparent and in the background, that it sounds predominantly like a rhythmic element; like a high hat. Is that just a function of volume and panning? Are they using a high pass or some EQ scheme (if so, what general settings)? Is it frequency masking? Know any methods for getting this sound?
Variants of this sound are in many, many songs such as ZiggyStardust and Freebird.
The tips I have recieved so far are: use a thin pick, use Nashville tuning, cut at around 300Hz,
high pass anywhere from 100Hz - 400Hz and some others.
Any useful insights on this matter would be appreciated.
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| Re: How to get that ultra-transparent acoustic sound? [message #210144 is a reply to message #210132 ] |
Thu, 04 January 2007 11:15  |
rnicklaus
Messages: 3859
Registered: May 2004
Location: Left Coast |
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A very thin pick is good for this as well.
R.N.
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| Re: How to get that ultra-transparent acoustic sound? [message #210149 is a reply to message #210132 ] |
Thu, 04 January 2007 11:31 |
 PRobb
Messages: 2018
Registered: May 2004
Location: New York City |
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Playing technique is also key. I'm not sure how to say this, but don't dig into the strings. The (thin) pick should glide across the top. If you're clicking against the pickguard, you're not doing it right.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
-Edmund Burke
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| Re: How to get that ultra-transparent acoustic sound? [message #210171 is a reply to message #210132 ] |
Thu, 04 January 2007 13:02 |
maxdimario
Messages: 3811
Registered: December 2004 |
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tinny SDC's.
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| Re: How to get that ultra-transparent acoustic sound? [message #210381 is a reply to message #210189 ] |
Fri, 05 January 2007 04:07 |
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J.J. Blair
Messages: 12680
Registered: May 2004
Location: by the sea & sand |
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Not a gate, but a compressor with a slow attack, like an LA-2A, or something with a variable time set to slow. This way, the reduction doesn't kick in until after the strum.
Fibes is absolutely right about picks, too. The lighter the pick, the less note and the more clickiness. For this kind of thing, I tend to go for mics that accentuate the picking, like a C12. You will also find that some mics like the 12th fret and some like the soundhole. With the music playing, trying moving it around to both and see what fits in with the music.
One more thing, I'm not sure if it was mentioned: Try double tracking the acoustic with both takes hard paned L and R.
studio info
They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.
"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher
"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham
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| Re: How to get that ultra-transparent acoustic sound? [message #210386 is a reply to message #210132 ] |
Fri, 05 January 2007 05:35 |
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Fletcher
Messages: 2775
Registered: April 2004
Location: München |
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The "Nashville tuning" is an interesting layer that might help you get the acoustic sound to 'layer' into the other guitar sounds without jamming up the track. The "Nashville tuning" is when you restring your guitar with the upper register strings from a set of 12 string strings and play it like a regular guitar, only an octave higher... that register of the audio spectrum often remains unused in most modern recordings [unless you have a piano involved in which case that area of the audio spectrum may be covered].
The technique of the player is [of course] of paramount importance, but the arrangement of where the sounds/tones of the instruments involved end up will also play a huge part in the final result.
As Ross mentioned, a good small diaphragm condenser microphone can often capture that sound in a manner that really sits well in a track. I generally try to use two mics and get their phase relationship to kinda get the 300Hz cancellation rather than using an EQ to cancel that frequency area. I have been using a Microtech Gefell M-295 [metal diaphragm mic, like the KM-54 but without the tube... a slightly clearer amplifier in terms of less distortion] about a foot off the 12th fret aimed back in at the soundhole of the guitar and a T.H.E. KP-6M sitting around the toe of the [right handed player's] right foot aimed up at the guitar pointed at the bridge.
As always, YMMV... best of luck with your search.
Peace.
CN Fletcher
TELEFUNKEN Elektroakustik
mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33
We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid
"Recording engineers are an arrogant bunch.
If you've spent most of your life with a few thousand dollars worth of musicians in the studio, making a decision every second and a half... and you and they are going to have to live with it for the rest of your lives, you'll get pretty arrogant too. It takes a certain amount of balls to do that... something around three"
Malcolm Chisholm
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| Re: How to get that ultra-transparent acoustic sound? [message #210405 is a reply to message #210387 ] |
Fri, 05 January 2007 07:42 |
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J.J. Blair
Messages: 12680
Registered: May 2004
Location: by the sea & sand |
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| Bryson wrote on Fri, 05 January 2007 03:46 |
I only have LA-3a's and I think they're rather fast in attack, with slow release.
I feel I can dial my 1176's with a much slower attack than my LA-3a's.
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Slow enough to increase sibilance on vox and pick click on acoustic. It's the mechanics of the Elop with that luminescent panel that make it a hair slow enough that it helps the leading transient escape the reduction. Elops that use LEDs, like the Manley, are much quicker, and don't achieve this effect.
studio info
They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.
"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher
"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham
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| Re: How to get that ultra-transparent acoustic sound? [message #210533 is a reply to message #210132 ] |
Fri, 05 January 2007 16:07 |
PaulyD
Messages: 847
Registered: August 2004 |
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I like to record steel stringed acoustic guitars with two mics, one aimed at the bridge and one aimed towards the neck, just about where the neck meets the body. The mic aimed at the bridge will get the bright stuff and the one aimed at the neck gets the dark stuff. The beauty of this approach is it lets you mix 'n' match to taste at mixdown. In other words, if it's just naked guitar or guitar and vocals, you can balance the tracks for a full sound. If the acoustic is being mixed in with other instruments, you can balance the tracks so the bridge mic track dominates. You need that jangly stuff to cut through the mix. I usually compress liberally using this approach, some of which goes direct to disk.
Hope this helps,
Paul
People In Music
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| Re: How to get that ultra-transparent acoustic sound? [message #210601 is a reply to message #210386 ] |
Fri, 05 January 2007 20:33 |
RSettee
Messages: 6750
Registered: November 2006 |
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| Fletcher wrote on Fri, 05 January 2007 05:35 |
The "Nashville tuning" is an interesting layer that might help you get the acoustic sound to 'layer' into the other guitar sounds without jamming up the track. The "Nashville tuning" is when you restring your guitar with the upper register strings from a set of 12 string strings and play it like a regular guitar, only an octave higher... that register of the audio spectrum often remains unused in most modern recordings [unless you have a piano involved in which case that area of the audio spectrum may be covered
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Yeah? That's cool. I never heard of that before.
My tricks are to use a thin pick (like some have said), point a condenser at the upper frets, and sometimes at the soundhole for a more aggressive sound. Dipping below 250 Hz, I find, is usually best. Also a cool idea (if you have more mics), set another one up towards the end of the guitar (so you're getting a "woodier", less bright sound, less "pick-y"), and then mix the two mic tracks together. Beware of phasing problems on that, though.
highwattelectrocutions.com "The Bermuda Triangle"
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| Re: How to get that ultra-transparent acoustic sound? [message #210602 is a reply to message #210132 ] |
Fri, 05 January 2007 20:35 |
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Paul, do you pan these different mics? Or do you mix them live to one track? Do you check them in mono to ensure phase compatability?
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