Home » R/E/P » Brad Blackwood » Thermionic Culture Phoenix and Metal Music
| Thermionic Culture Phoenix and Metal Music [message #328860] |
Sat, 29 March 2008 11:49  |
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Cyclops
Messages: 35
Registered: January 2005
Location: Long Beach, CA |
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For any TC Phoenix users that have mixed or mastered metal music, can you comment on the tc's performance for this specific genre? Someone on an earlier link recommended listening to The Nationals and Interpol which I did. Just curious how this comp works on the 2 bus for heavier music. I'm exploring varimu compressors, rented a manley varimu recently (version/mods unknown), but I am looking for something different.
Thanks for the thoughts,
Jeff
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| Re: Thermionic Culture Phoenix and Metal Music [message #332977 is a reply to message #328860 ] |
Sat, 12 April 2008 10:23  |
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Cyclops
Messages: 35
Registered: January 2005
Location: Long Beach, CA |
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Well, I had the privilege to follow good advice and do some demos with Cutting Edge Audio up in San Francisco. I was really intrigued about the API 2500 per your recommendations, but it wasn't available for demo. However, I was able to take in some recorded rock music in the low B tuning to try out the following compressors:
(1) Pendulum OCL-2, (2) Thermionic Culture Phoenix, (3) Roll Music Systems 755 Super Stereo Compressor and a (4) Manely Vari-mu with the Hipass mod.
I have normally mixed with a Joe Meek SC2 and was accustomed to the optical sound. Theoretically, I liked the idea of a varimu compressor, and was inclined to do some testing. I'll list my post-listening test ranking with some brief notes for those interested.
1) OCL-2: Transparent as others mentioned, but this box was in NO way lacking in character. The compression was transparent, but the sound was very full at the same time. No doubt my favorite box of those tested. It was hard to make this box sound bad on a mix. I only wish I could have heard the API 2500 next to this even though it's a different beast.
2) Roll 755: This was something in their rack that was just a "why not try it." This was a surprisingly smooth box. I played around with it and it sounded great on the 2 bus. It wasn't as lovely as the OCL-2 to my ears, but a surprisingly good box for something I had never heard of.
3) Thermionic Culture: My theoretical expectation of liking Vari-mu boxes has not translated to reality. Maybe I'm biased because of using the SC2 for so long, but the TC did not top my list as I expected. I know Fletcher has said it's untouchable for vocals, and others love it on the 2bus, but it wasn't for me. You can definitely achieve a wide variety of sounds with this box. You can go from subtle tube oomph, to drastic grinding. After playing with it a while my mind kept going back to the OCL-2 with it's nice treatment of the 2bus (both with presets and manual tweaking) with the glorious optical/tube combo.
4) Manley Vari-mu: This box was definitely superior to one that I rented in LA a bit ago since the box I tested in this demo had the Hipass filter. It made a major difference to me since the music I mix around with tends to have a lot of drop tuning and a ton of low end. Again, the fact that my ears are so used to optical compression may have prevented me from seeing the glory of this box.
At this point, I am very curious to test/rent an API 2500 since that seems like the last comparison I need before forking out the cash. Lastly, I will add that Matthew and Tom at Cutting Edge were extremely nice fellows and coordinated a great demo session. I will definitely be buying from them when I'm ready since they actually let me hear these beasts instead of me just intellectually lusting over the idea of these devices. Thanks for everyone's feedback and recommendations.
Cheers,
Jeff
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| Re: Thermionic Culture Phoenix and Metal Music [message #332986 is a reply to message #328860 ] |
Sat, 12 April 2008 10:53 |
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Bob Boyd
Messages: 1076
Registered: December 2004
Location: Houston |
Platinum Member |
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I recently took the 'mastering ' version of the Phoenix for a test drive again. I remembered liking the original box but thought it would be difficult to document and recall if needed. Maybe time for another look?
Although I thought the faceplate looked fantastic, unfortunately this unit suffered from some mismatch issues. The right hand GR meter would drop down almost a dB at certain release times with no audio passing, and pots didn't match in feel. That, combined with the fact that boxes like the STC-8/M have raised my expectations since the last time I tried it, led to a pretty brief test drive.
Bob Boyd
ambientdigital, Houston
http://ambientdigital.com
http://myspace.com/ambientdigital
I'm not superstitious... but I am a little stitious.
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| Re: Thermionic Culture Phoenix and Metal Music [message #340977 is a reply to message #339707 ] |
Tue, 13 May 2008 10:21 |
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Bob Boyd
Messages: 1076
Registered: December 2004
Location: Houston |
Platinum Member |
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| Ben F wrote on Wed, 07 May 2008 23:53 |
| Matt_G wrote on Tue, 06 May 2008 21:42 |
Hey Bob, are you saying that the 'Mastering' version of the Phoenix you got in on trial had mismatch issues or the 'Standard' version?
I've been wanting to try one of these myself as an alternative to the Manley Vari-Mu. I guess that makes it hard to test the unit properly, but how did you find the sound of it? I can't imagine it being comparable in sound to the STC-8 as it's a different beast altogether.
Matt
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I may be able to answer this for you. The standard Pheonix does sometimes suffer from a slight mismatch of the PCC85s valves. It's no big deal just run a 100Hz sine wave into it and check level/distortion for both sides. The mastering version apparently has better matching.
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Sorry for the delay in getting back to you on this. Been absolutely slammed here.
Unfortunately, it was a mastering version I was referring to. It looked fantastic but the particular unit I tried lacked the physical feel that I expect in a mastering edition. Channel to channel, the pots didn't feel the same. That, combined with the GR meter pulling one on side at the longest release time, didn't leave me with a great feeling. Unfortunate, because it would have looked great in my rack. 
I would still recommend that people audition it if they're interested. Hopefully, these issues were unique to this particular unit.
Bob Boyd
ambientdigital, Houston
http://ambientdigital.com
http://myspace.com/ambientdigital
I'm not superstitious... but I am a little stitious.
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| Re: Thermionic Culture Phoenix and Metal Music [message #350648 is a reply to message #340977 ] |
Thu, 19 June 2008 10:33 |
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 Matt_G
Messages: 411
Registered: July 2004
Location: Brisbane Australia |
Active Member |
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| Bob Boyd wrote on Wed, 14 May 2008 01:21 |
Unfortunately, it was a mastering version I was referring to. It looked fantastic but the particular unit I tried lacked the physical feel that I expect in a mastering edition. Channel to channel, the pots didn't feel the same. That, combined with the GR meter pulling one on side at the longest release time, didn't leave me with a great feeling. Unfortunate, because it would have looked great in my rack.
I would still recommend that people audition it if they're interested. Hopefully, these issues were unique to this particular unit.
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Hey Bob, I've got a mastering edition Phoenix in at the moment & I totally understand what you're saying regarding the feel of the pots. The Attack, Release & S.C filter switches feel good the stepped input & output pots feel a little cheap & the threshold detented pots are a different feel again! At first it threw me off the quality of the unit so I ran some tones through it to test the tracking from L to R & to my surprise it was bang on. This unit also has a weird GR meter on the right channel that seems to vary it's reading compared to the left channel but this doesn't affect the sound or L/R tracking in any way.
It's a pity this unit wasn't built better or had better quality control because the sound is stellar! If it didn't sound so damn good I wouldn't hesitate on sending it back. So now I'm thinking perhaps I'll have my tech fix the gammy meter & maybe fit some decent pots & switches with some better quality knobs at a later date. The small anomalies with the feel of the unit are worth fixing because it just sounds so bloody good.
The compression action is just so smooth, you can have it slow & pumpy or fast & transparent with the linear & HPF SC options respectively. The input gain also dictates saturation levels & makes this unit growl especially with 2-4db of GR or super clean (in a valve way) with the input backed off. It still lets the drums through while adding gentle control with the right settings. I was very impressed with the variety of useful settings you could get from the Phoenix, it just does what you'd hope. It sits perfectly after the faster punchier API 2500 & this combo going to the half inch ATR sounds positively beautiful.
Hopefully with a few simple mods the Phoenix will be a winner.
Matt
Matthew Gray Mastering
Brisbane Australia
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| Re: Thermionic Culture Phoenix and Metal Music [message #350848 is a reply to message #350769 ] |
Fri, 20 June 2008 02:19 |
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Matt_G
Messages: 411
Registered: July 2004
Location: Brisbane Australia |
Active Member |
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| Ben F wrote on Fri, 20 June 2008 10:12 |
The meters can be adjusted using the trims below the needles, or more precise adjustments can be made via the 2 trimpots behind the meters accessible through the lid.
I've found that 1/2" and The Pheonix is an excellent combo as well. It is a very punchy compressor, with huge RMS gains, almost like a peak limiter. I used to use it in combination with the Weiss DS-1 but have been preferring the UAD-1 precision limiter lately.
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Thanks for the tip regarding the meters, I ended up adjusting it through the top to align the L/R balance with tones & also adjusted the screw on the meter's front panel which seemed to do the trick. Both meters have been stable all day through out my sessions. I would bet that it got knocked out of alignment during transit.
This thing sounds killer, I did a hip hop double album yesterday & I love what the Phoenix brought to the chain. It's just what I've been craving & it compliments my EQ & other compressor options very nicely. For the record the mastering options are really great (with the exception of the threshold pots feeling a bit weird). The documenting & recall is quick & easy; the L/R tracking & alignment in 'unlinked' mode is spot on & I'm preferring working with it in unlinked mode most of the time. The HPF options are fantastic they just work as you would hope for, the bottom end stays big & clear while showing no obvious signs of the crossover point. I'm also loving the input drive saturation & the attack/release settings are perfect. I'm usually preferring an attack of 4 or 5 with a release of 1 - 3. On a rock track I wound up the input to +6, attack of 4, release of 1 with a threshold of 7 & the HPF setting switched in & it sounded huge without choking the bottom end (around 3db of GR).
Still might change some of the pots down the track (or they may get more responsive with regular use?). But otherwise this box is a perfect fit & is staying right here.
Matt
Matthew Gray Mastering
Brisbane Australia
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| Re: Thermionic Culture Phoenix and Metal Music [message #354202 is a reply to message #350848 ] |
Sat, 05 July 2008 17:10 |
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Ivo
Messages: 168
Registered: July 2004
Location: Czech mountains and fores... |
Active Member |
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I had a chance to try and test Phoenix Mastering version (and compare it side by side to Gyraf G10 and Vertigo VSC-2 compressors). After hearing very enthusiastic comments about Phoenix all the time, I expected a lot ... But somehow, to my ears and to my surprise, I got a bit less ... Comparing to Vertigo and especially Gyraf, Phoenix tended to sound a bit "small" and tiny bit "veiled", with less punchy transients. It certainly did not have that 3D lush of Gyraf, which also sounded more open in HF. When driving Phoenix harder, the space seemed to become even a bit smaller and more bass "muffled". In general I felt Phoenix is a nice small, gentle "velvety" compressor, which can be nice for certain occassions but it somehow does not have that flattering "magnificence" of space and punch as the other two.
I also tried these compressors for hard rock tracks and I did not feel Phoenix gave them that extra "juice", drive and size one would expect for such tracks, it was rather Gyraf or Vertigo which enhanced those track in an expected, pleasing way (Gyraf more "heavy", Vertigo more "classy").
As much as I fell in love with Earlybird preamp and Pullet combo, I was not that much blown away by Phoenix. What was a bit strange that even in the "link" mode, each channel was still controlled separately ... Maybe I should have looked in the manual ...
BTW I also tried Vulture mastering version but did not find it much useful for my mastering. The best function was always BYPASS: when switched on, everything suddenly sounded great
But as always: YMMV
Ivo
VELVET MASTERING
www.velvetmastering.com
SAVITA MUSIC
www.savita.cz
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