| Recording drums in small rooms...... [message #27062] |
Tue, 02 November 2004 21:20  |
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wwest
Messages: 45
Registered: October 2004
Location: In a Dungeon |
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Although I've been recording for quite some time now, and was reared in a studio with only a small drum booth to record drums in, over the past 7 years or so I've always tracked drums at studios that had larger drum rooms with relatively high ceilings. I've recently taken on a project that will place me in a studio with a fairly small tracking room and very low ceilings (7-8ft). Upon setting up, I'm beginning to realize, once again, what I hated about tracking drums in small rooms.
It's my opinion that, in essence, the drums have no room to breathe. It seems that no matter the mic placement or mic/pre choice the snare is always too loud in the OH's. Not so much with this drummer, but with many drummers in a small room the cymbals will also become very crashy with little sustain captured. In this particular room I'm also dealing with a nasty ER ambience problem that I'm slowly working out with moving the kit around and placing baffles.
I suppose I'm here searching for suggestions and/or experiences with similar situations. In recording rock drums, I've always found a love with great sounding larger rooms. Unfortunately, for this project, that won't be happening. Someone said something about money........??????huh??
Anyone have suggestions or experiences relating to tracking and mixing drums recorded in smaller rooms??
Tune that piece of shit
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| Re: Recording drums in small rooms...... [message #27119 is a reply to message #27062 ] |
Wed, 03 November 2004 08:29  |
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 Fletcher
Messages: 2775
Registered: April 2004
Location: München |
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Ahhh the dreaded curse of the low ceiling... damn I hate that motherfucker!! The only viable solution I've found is to scrap the 'overheads' and go for 'underheads'.
Underheads are two mics placed in front of the kit so they are each about 1/3 of the way between the walls [assuming a tight booth, like 10-12 feet wide] aimed so they point at "ground zero" on the snare [where the drummer actually hits the drum, not the center of the drum], 1/2 way between the ceiling and the floor... which usually puts them about right under the cymbals and slightly over the toms.
By putting the mics 1/3 of the way into the room [on the lateral dimension], and creating an isosceles triangle to the snare, I have found I often get the desired "overhead" kind of result... sometimes it actually works out a little better than overheads.
Best of luck with it!!
CN Fletcher
TELEFUNKEN Elektroakustik
mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33
We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid
"Recording engineers are an arrogant bunch.
If you've spent most of your life with a few thousand dollars worth of musicians in the studio, making a decision every second and a half... and you and they are going to have to live with it for the rest of your lives, you'll get pretty arrogant too. It takes a certain amount of balls to do that... something around three"
Malcolm Chisholm
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| Re: Recording drums in small rooms...... [message #27190 is a reply to message #27062 ] |
Wed, 03 November 2004 16:05 |
PRobb
Messages: 2018
Registered: May 2004
Location: New York City |
Platinum Member |
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I second Fletcer's "underhead" technique. Two 121s about 3 feet in front of the kit at the level of the top of the rack toms. The balance between drums and cymbols can be controled by angling the mics up or down. A bit of compression definitely helps. Manley vari-mu for natural, distressors for "slamming".
Also, I find small rooms favor drummers that know how to get tone without pounding the drums.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
-Edmund Burke
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| Re: Recording drums in small rooms...... [message #27258 is a reply to message #27062 ] |
Thu, 04 November 2004 04:15 |
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J.J. Blair
Messages: 12680
Registered: May 2004
Location: by the sea & sand |
Diamond Member |
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Heavy compression with the right attack/release times can always give the illusion of a space sounding bigger and more distant that it actually is. I've mentioned this a million times, but in my own room I use a 4038 across the room, against the wall, and four button 1176 the thing to death, and if you sneak it in behind the close drum mics, it makes the room sound much larger than it actually is. Compressing the OH heavily can achieve a similar effect.
Also, did you consider trying blumlein on the OH, directly above the cymbals? I've done that with my SM69 and it sounds pretty nice.
But, I don't understand why 8 foot ceilings are that much of an issue. Are you having reflection problems? Are there standing waves due to parallel surfaces?
studio info
They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.
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| Re: Recording drums in small rooms...... [message #27274 is a reply to message #27062 ] |
Thu, 04 November 2004 09:11 |
mcsnare
Messages: 918
Registered: April 2004
Location: New York City |
Gold Member |
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Small to tiny rooms for drums are my absolute favorite. I'm serious. The low ceiling thing is a drag, but I agree with the other comments as far as doing all you can to kill any reflections. A small very dead room can be a gift in as much as it allows you to super compress various mics around the kit and pick up interesting and unusual sounding perspectives on the kit. When the room is dead and small, you can get away with insane amounts of compression without an excessive amount of room tone. If you experiment with position,mics,and compressors, you might be surprised at the kind or artificial ambience that can be created as a result of amplifying drum tone. If you don't believe me go to http://www.oceanwaystudios.com/studioa.htm
The last time I tracked there, I put the drums in the small, dead booth to the right of the control room. Everybody flipped over the drum sound.
Dave McNair
http://www.sterlingsound.com
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| Re: Recording drums in small rooms...... [message #27502 is a reply to message #27062 ] |
Fri, 05 November 2004 15:45 |
jwhynot
Messages: 1591
Registered: April 2004
Location: Los Angeles |
Platinum Member |
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Small and dead. Almost as cool as large and dead.
Small and live. Much, much worse than large and live.
Regarding cymbals and snares, even in a low-ceilinged room you can mess about with figure-8 on the cymbal mikes.
Takes a bit of doing, but it is possible to get oriented with the dead side looking at the snare and the back (live) side _not_ pointing at the ceiling.
Also I often find that if you're too close to the cyms it's not a horrible solution to use a shelf EQ and pull back on the sizzle a little. Leave the lows and mids alone and some apparent richness will return to your cymbal mikes.
Regarding boundary miking you can go in the corners but as long as your distance from the nearest boundary is, say, 1/3 of the distance to the next-nearest boundary it should be OK from any good-sounding point on the walls, ceiling or floor.
Another thing I've tried with some success is putting shorter, absorptive gobos right up around the kit, and putting the more distant mikes outside the little doghouse.
Anything to kill the big transient on the first reflection.
It's been a very long time since I tried "underheads" but dammit, I'm a gonna check that out again. I seem to remember some hyper-reality happening when I did that...
JW
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Re: Recording drums in small rooms......
